Rick Perry: "Non-Christians Condemned to Hell"

not surprising (5.00 / 1)

That is a view held by a lot of evangelicals, especially Baptists. My euro history teacher in high school was also a Baptist deacon. So of course we asked his opinion when we got to all the religious stuff and he said that he believed that if you already knew the word of Jesus and did not accept him, you would go to hell. His exception was people in the jungle that hadn't been told since they would basically be ignorant to knowing that Jesus even existed. Sad but true story.

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by: John McClelland @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 19:10:45 PM UTC

Cornerstone (3.00 / 2)

This makes me mad on a lot of different levels, but it also brings up a question.  Does Cornerstone have a tax-exempt status?  If so that is unbelievable.

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by: Cody Yocom @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 19:28:03 PM UTC

Good Question... (0.00 / 0)

A report done in 2003 says they are a "nonprofit", with John Hagee's compensation as one of the highest of any nonprofit director in the SA area:
http://www.rickross....

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by: salsal @ Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 18:21:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

More... (0.00 / 0)

Statement of 501c3 and more here (not confirmed):
http://open-letter-f...

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by: salsal @ Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 18:26:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

the article says.. (1.00 / 1)

the papers said that all candidates from every party were invited.  Many local dems were there in attendence as well, read the SAEN.  so the church did nothing wrong either.

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by: hamiltonfan @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 19:48:22 PM UTC

cross-post to Daily Kos (0.00 / 0)

I just did a search & no one is talking about it there. We need to get this out there!

Hill Country Ride for AIDSmy HCRA Page

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by: BeckyH @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 20:08:22 PM UTC

talk about what? (0.00 / 0)

17 million Texans will tell you thye believe the same thing.  not a good issue to push, it will only inflame the right of center.  careful what you wish for

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by: hamiltonfan @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 20:40:58 PM UTC

Really (4.00 / 2)

I would find it awfully hard to believe that 17 million Texans are of the Evangelical variety given that the entire Texas population is just short of 23 million. I know many Christians and while they would fall into that possible 17 million figure they certainly wouldn't stand up to be counted with the people you are talking about.

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by: dig @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 20:51:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

hamiltonfan is really perryfan so don't take that suggestion at face value (4.00 / 2)

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by: stopkinky @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 20:57:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's not an "evangelical" issue... (3.00 / 1)

It's honestly a fundamental Christian belief.  The Bible specifically says that in order to be "saved" (IE: go to Heaven) one must accept Christ into their hearts.  Since this IS a majority Christian nation and a VAST majority Christian state, the belief that those who are not saved are not going to Heaven (and, thus, are going to Hell) is hardly controversial.  Attacking him on this only shows how amazingly out of touch with reality some Democrats really are and hurts any chances we have of a Democratic majority in this country.

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by: David O. @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 22:14:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Open your eyes to history (3.00 / 1)

Didnt this country have a Democratic majority for decades before a few years ago? Why do you all think that the Republican/Christian Conservative Movement has had a lock on politics for so long? I hardly think we're going to be stuck with this nonsense for much longer given our country's history of politics and the fact religion should play ZERO part in it regardless of who the majority is. Next thing you know you will be telling us only white people should hold office because we're the majority at the moment (oh wait, we tried that once).

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by: John McClelland @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 22:58:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

If your eyes are open.... (0.00 / 0)

you must be squinting- partially open, seeing little. Never have we had a solid conservative majority...and the political mood swings of our country have only been tempermental. Never have we had a president that is far to the left or far to the right, for instance.

The only real shift we've ever had is a partisan one. Remember how many Christians thought in 1976 that Carter was "one of them," before the Pat Robertson/Falwell types got Reagan elected in 1980? Only then did the Kennedy types really surface and come within striking distance of putting an incumbent in danger, when Ted Kennedy almost captured the Democratic nomination.

Considering Reagan, some today question whether Reagan was really as conservative as he sold himself to be. Many in the know, note now that when Reagan spouted off many conservative themes, he turned to someone and winked at them. In fact, it was Reagan who as Governor of California, signed the first bill into law that legalized abortion in California.

John, the common thought about political history in America is not always what really happened. In all fairness, Rush at first tried to characterize Clinton as a tree hugging liberal, when historians pointed out that in the mid-1980s, Clinton took a strong anti-abortion stand when he wasn't quite close to launching a presidential bid.

www.completethewar.com

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by: sfagrad02 @ Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 03:58:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

So why does Bell also claim to be a Christian... (0.00 / 0)

if, hypothetically, he doesn't agree that the Bible quotes Jesus as saying, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me?"

I'm no Perry fan, although obsessedwithstoppingkinky would likely label me one- but anyone who claims to be a Christian, Democrat or Republican, must look at what the Bible says. Just as much as how I couldn't claim to be a Muslim if I thought that praying five times a day was the most asinine ritual ever known to man (and don't get me wrong, I actually admire Muslims for their fervent dedication to prayer...)

www.completethewar.com

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by: sfagrad02 @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 21:36:17 PM UTC

The Bible is longer than those 18 words (0.00 / 0)

My Bible also contains this passage:

"Become doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning. For if anyone is a hearer of the word, and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself, and off he goes and immediately forgets what sort of man he is. But he who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and who persists in it, this man, because he has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, will be happy in his doing it.... My brothers, what use is it for a man to say he has faith when he does nothing to show it? Can that faith save him? Suppose a brother or a sister is in rags with not enough food for the day, and one of you says, 'Good luck to you, keep yourselves warm, and have plenty to eat', but does nothing to supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? So with faith; if it does not lead to action, it is in itself a lifeless thing." (James 1:22-25, 2:14-17).

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by: stopkinky @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 22:26:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

So does mine.... (0.00 / 0)

and noone who calls himself or herself a Christian should do so, unless they pratice what they preach. Christianity is a way of life, not a religion...and a difficult one at that. I'm known for having road rage, impatience, etc. And I'm more than grateful to serve a God who has forgiven me many many times. None of us are perfect..but that doesn't excuse us to stray from our beliefs either.

www.completethewar.com

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by: sfagrad02 @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 23:05:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

REMEMBER: Strayhorn tried to strip the Unitarian Universalist (3.67 / 3)

church of its tax exempt status so she's hardly any better on this issue.

Link: http://www.firstamen...

Summary:  The Unitarian Universalist church preaches tolerance.  Defying the church's long religious history in the United States, Strayhorn claimed that the church wasn't really a religion so she could use that argument as the basis to yank the church's tax empt status because, in her words the Texas Unitarian church "does not have one system of belief."

Of course, even conservative legal and religious scholars were shocked.  Conservative University of Texas law professor Douglas Laycock, who specializes in religious liberty issues, was quick to point out that Texas has not always barred similarly inclusive religions from tax exempt status. Previously, even the Republican Texas Supreme Court had and other Texas courts had rejected this tactic, holding that such a bigoted practice "fails to include the whole range of belief systems that may, in our diverse and pluralistic society, merit the First Amendment protection."

Strayhorn vowed to fight the Unitarian Universalist church to the U.S. Supreme Court, comparing the church to a "wannabe cult" with members who "dress up and parades down Sixth Street on Halloween." Just a week after this bigoted statement, she reversed her biased decision and have up her persecution.

Strayhorn is as religiously bigotted as Perry.

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by: stopkinky @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 21:40:09 PM UTC

you can be dismisive but facts dont lie. (0.00 / 0)

StopKinky if i was perryfan i would be for making this a huge deal.  check the facts on Texas and the USA how many folks believe as Perry. http://www.barna.org...

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by: hamiltonfan @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 21:43:03 PM UTC

If "facts don't lie," then who does? You said "17 million Texans will ... (4.33 / 3)

tell you thye believe the same thing" about religious condemnation.  That "17 million" figure is not "fact;" it's crazy talk.  See http://www.texasalma...

I only said you were a Perry because of this:

http://209.157.64.20...
http://www.freerepub...
http://www.washingto...
http://blogs.chron.c...

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by: stopkinky @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 23:11:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Crazy Libs (5.00 / 1)

This story is ridiculous..

It's in the bible....

of course he thinks that...most Christians do....

I am learning in one of my theology classes that those who "hear the word" can be saved, but that it's few and far between.

Conservative Yet Pragmatic

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by: rightoftexas @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 23:25:15 PM UTC

Well thanks for the enlightenment (0.00 / 0)

First, what some people question is what might Jesus been saying when he said, "I am the way, the truth, and the light."  It could have been literal; as in, follow me personally -- my name -- as you and perry seem to think.  Then, there is the idea that Jesus might have been using symbolism, as was often used in the Bible.  It is possible that Jesus was saying something to the effect of, "follow what I have taught you, be loving, peaceful, kind, humble, acknowledge that there is a God and do his work; in short, the only way to get to Heaven is to follow who Jesus was and is. 

I won't even address the "I was told in class ... " 

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by: jsswt @ Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 03:53:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

you can be dismisive but facts dont lie. (5.00 / 1)

StopKinky if i was perryfan i would be for making this a huge deal.  check the facts on Texas and the USA how many folks believe as Perry. http://www.barna.org...

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by: hamiltonfan @ Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 23:50:26 PM UTC