| I remember asking you back in March when you first invited me into your home for our first sit-down together, how do you convince Jack and Jill Democratic activist to vote for Tom Schieffer? Was that a tougher task then what you expected it to be?
No, it really wasn't. I actually--well, there were kind of two parts to the campaign, one went very well and the other I just had trouble getting any traction with. The one that went very well was the political part of it. When I would go out and make speeches and get in front of people I would get a lot of support. I would give basically the same speech I would give in low-income neighborhoods as I did high-income neighborhoods and I got the same response. You remember that speech that I made out there to the Mid-Cities Democrats right in the very beginning--I mean there were a lot of people that were skeptical in the beginning of that speech and there were a lot of converts at the end. That was kind of the way it was everywhere I went. I went all over the state and with elected officials in particular I really had a message that resonated--I mean they could see where I could add strength to the top of the ticket.
The problem I had more than anything else was convincing people outside the Dallas/Fort Worth area that I could win. That really hurt me with fundraising. There was a continual drumbeat to try and get somebody else to run and every time that would happen it would hurt me when I was trying to raise money. It seemed like it diminished over time, but I never could really overcome it. It was particularly difficult down in the Houston area because people kept talking about the possibility that Bill White would run and all that kind of stuff. Bill White kept telling me that he didn't want to do that, and I don't think he did want to--I don't think there was a hidden agenda there and all that. I think he sincerely wanted to run for the senate.
But I think with the circumstances with Hutchison not resigning and all that kind of stuff, it just made sense for him to consider the gubernatorial race and that is what I told him. I hope that he takes my advice.
Now I heard you at the Tarrant County CEC meeting I guess it was last Thursday (Nov. 19th) and you still sounded like a candidate for governor at that time, were you kind of going through the motions in your mind and within your campaign at that point to maybe look at exiting that race? Or were you still full-bore running for governor at that moment?
Well, running the whole time was just a rollercoaster of emotions--I mean, you'd have a good night like I had the other night and you can see it all working, and then you'd come back and you'd have someone turn you down on the fundraising part of it and it would just seem like it was impossible. It was just up and down, up and down the whole time. Yeah, Thursday night I was still a candidate and thought about being a candidate and all that, and I felt like I could win if I got the Democratic nomination and I still feel like I could have won if I got the Democratic nomination, but you've got to have funds to win. What kept happening to me was always, "you need to do one more thing before I can make a financial commitment." I raised some money, it's not that I didn't raise any money, but it was particularly hard to raise the money in the Houston area and I realized that until the filing deadline was over I wasn't going to be able to raise anymore money and so I had to make some hard choices.
I wanted to get a feel for Bill White and so that's why Friday afternoon I decided that the best way to do that was to go and talk to him. We did and we had a great conversation and a great meeting. I decided at that point in time--and I told him, that if you decide you want to do this I'll step aside. I just thought from the very beginning that somebody had to do this, and truth be told had White decided he was going to run last December I would have never run to begin with. I was afraid that what was going to happen was that Rick Perry would be the nominee for the Republican Party and Democrats would have a great opportunity and they would blow it with not having a credible candidate to be the alternative. That's what I tried to be and that's what I think that Bill White can be.
Was it you who initiated the meeting with Bill White or was it someone on your behalf to at least open that door?
No, I asked Lyndon Olson if he would call Bill. He knew Bill. So we set up a meeting over the weekend on Saturday and he called back. Lyndon called Scott Atlas first, and then he talked with Bill on Saturday, and Bill said come on down and we'll have a sandwich.
Was it your intention the whole time to just simply convince Bill White to run for governor?
Well, I wanted to have a sense for what he wanted to do.
I see...
My goal was to have somebody run for governor that was a credible alternative to the Republicans. Whether that was me or him, that wasn't as important to me as having a good candidate. So, that's the basis of my reaching out.
And how receptive was Bill White to your pitch? Was he...
I don't want to get into all of that. He is the one who has to make the final decision and the announcement, but obviously I think a lot of him or I wouldn't have done what I did. Let's let it unfold next week before I get into too much of that conversation.
What kind of candidate for governor do you think Bill White will make should he decide to run?
I think he'll be a great candidate because he has the ability to immediately bring some funds to the table and he has the ability to raise more. He is a very successful mayor and people like him. He has the greatest name identification and the greatest support in the Houston area, but I think his reputation is such that he can get support in other parts of the state. I think he is a formidable candidate. I think he will cause the rest of the ticket to be filled out. I think we need more credible candidates that are running in statewide offices and to have a full ticket. I am hopeful that by trying to get the gubernatorial issue settled quickly that the rest of it will fill in and we'll have a good, strong ticket up and down the line. That is what we're going to have to have. You cannot go to the voters with a ticket that has holes in it. You have to say, "the Democratic Party is ready to govern in Texas," and the way you say that is by having a credible candidate in all those statewide offices.
Well I agree with you there and if we put it together we could very well have as strong a ticket as we've had since 1982 when Jim Mattox, Anne Richards, and many more were up and down that ticket...
White, and Lloyd Benson and Bill Hobby
Absolutely...
I mean, that was when people got elected. That's what you have to have. You just can't go out and say "I'm a Democrat," and "vote for me." You have to translate to people the ability to govern. I thought that was the greatest strength I had in my candidacy. Nobody ever said to me "I don't think you're up to being governor." Now, they would talk to me about whether or not I could get elected governor, but I think I was a credible gubernatorial candidate because people thought I had the ability to be governor, and the experience to be governor, and that is what Bill White has. He has that same kind of experience and ability, and no one says that being governor is beyond his ability, but you've got to be able to say that about the lieutenant governor candidate, the comptroller candidate, land commissioner--you have to have people there that can do the job if they are elected. If you have those people there it strengthens the ticket up and down the line and everybody has a chance if that is the case.
I agree with you on having a full ballot to offer, is there any chance you are considering, or may consider any of those other ballot positions?
No
Not at all?
No, I just think those are positions that are for younger people. I just think that I can make better contributions doing other things.
What about the remaining candidates for governor. What is your impression of them as candidates--I mean, you've been out there in the field with them for a bit, so what is your impression of them, and what should they do should White make a gubernatorial run?
I think, what I said at the press conference the other day is what I think they should consider doing. I think they should reassess their position and realize that Bill White is the strongest candidate we could field and think about running for other offices or not running.
I did not want to have a bruising Democratic primary in which some of these slash and burn techniques were used and all that kind of stuff, and you ended up with a Democratic Party that was fractured at the end of the process. I think we need to get behind a candidate and coalesce around that candidate and that's what gives you strength. This is not going to be easy.
Right...
Under the best circumstances this is not going to be easy. What I tried to explain to people is that Barack Obama may be the best politician of my lifetime, and there were some pretty good ones in there, but he didn't carry Texas. He carried 44% of the vote in Texas. You're going to have to find someone who can carry 51% of the vote in Texas, and that is not an easy thing to do, but it is doable if you have a credible candidate. But, you have to be firing on all cylinders and you can't take anything for granted, and you can't say well "the demographics are trending toward Democrats and it'll happen," and all that kind of stuff. You have to go out and make it happen. If you don't do that we'll lose again.
Yeah, and you have to have a credible candidate, and a credible candidate with money--as you indicated, and the ability and willingness to build infrastructure beyond just the urban counties and be willing to run more of a suburban/rural county campaign. Do you feel any of these candidates in the race right now can do that or if Bill White enters the race he could do that?
I think Bill White can do that, I don't think anybody else can do that. You know, people--I am convinced that there are Democratic votes in rural Texas and smaller cities across Texas, but you have to work it at, you have to get out there, you have to have a candidate, and you got to spend some money out there, and you have to tell people that you really do care about them. It's not just about the urban centers, or this or that particular issue, you have got to tell people--convince people that you will listen to their concerns, and that you are empathetic to what they are facing out there. We can do so much better in Texas then what we are doing right now and people realize that. I mean, that is something I came away from the campaign more convinced of then I was even before I entered this campaign. There is a constituency for a thoughtful, serious candidate, but you can't go out there and make a joke out of it or go out in costume and expect people to follow. They want a real leader who is willing to face up to the difficult challenges we have.
And I think I told you, that the analysis that I think is the best analysis of the Obama vote last time is that you start off with the big five urban counties. Obama carried 4 out of 5. I hoped I could have made a difference in Tarrant County. Then you go to the next five of the big counties and those are the big suburban counties next to the big five urban counties and Obama did substantially better there among high-income, highly educated white voters. Well, Bill White has done that in Houston in his races and so I think that is a natural constituency for him there. If you go to the thirty counties that have a Hispanic majority, Bill White will do real well there, and I think I would have done well there. Obama carried those areas with a 2 to 1 margin. But then you look at the next 214 counties, Obama got beat 4 and 5 to 1. There were places up in the panhandle where he got beat 10 to 1. You can't do that and hope to win a statewide race, and while I think there are a lot of places that a Democratic candidate will not necessarily carry, I think we can do a whole lot better then that. We must have a candidate who can appeal to the broad center of the electorate and I think that Bill White can be that type of candidate.
Do you plan to campaign for the full ticket in 2010?
Well I will do whatever anyone asks me to do, but I do have to make a living here.
No doubt. Running for governor I'm sure hurt your ability to do that.
Running for governor was not good for my personal finances, but that's part of the deal going into this.
Any regrets about your campaign? Anything you feel you would have changed or done differently, or were you happy with the campaign you ran and the conversation you started in the race?
I'm happy with the fact that I ran and I have no regrets having done it. I knew it was a long shot to begin with, but again I thought if someone didn't try that we weren't going to make things better. I'm sorry it didn't come out better then it did, but I don't have any fault with what we did. It was...you know, running a statewide campaign from the start is a hard thing to do, but I think I made a pretty good effort and I got pretty far down the road. I just in the end couldn't raise the money necessary to sustain a statewide campaign. I could have stayed in--I mean, I had enough ability to do that, but I didn't want to limp into the primary, and if no one else was out there I was prepared to do it. But, if there was an alternative I thought it was a wise thing to help someone get the nomination that had a better chance at it then I did. That's what I chose to do. It was a great adventure and I don't regret it at all. I got a chance to meet a lot of great folks across the state that I wouldn't have otherwise had the chance to meet. In life sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't and this just didn't work out, but something else will.
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