Burnt Orange Report

good luck

Good point, Byron. I got sucked into using the "conservative Democrat" label as well. Off the top of my head, Frost has voted against legislation to limit abortions, to limit lawsuit awards, and to institute school vouchers, and he has supported gay rights.

There are valid reasons to argue that Frost is not the best candidate for the chair position, but the idea that he is a Bush and GOP conservative is just wrong. Kos was irresponsible in his accusation. Basing that on a summary from a source that leans right is a bit wrong-headed, too.

Every time that Martin Frost criticized the chimp, the SCLM will roll tape on his ads claiming to be Bush's buddy.

It doesn't matter who he is, it matters what he can do, and he already crippled himself.

FWIW, the real issue should not be politics, though taking money from Scaife rules out Roemer.

The real issue is whether or not the person can clean out the deadwood there.

I don't believe that Frost can, because he's been too friendly for too long with those folks, after something like 24 years on the hill.

At this point, we need to apply the personnel skills of Pol Pot to the Democratic establishment.

The thing that concerns me about Frost isn't his record, but its how he ran his campaign in Oakcliff this last go around.

It was a campaign filled with mudslinging and all it did was get everyone dirty-- including other local democrats. How do you support a guy, who uses as a campaign tactic, pictures of his opponent streaking from College?

I want to support someone, anyone, who will talk issues and challenge false messaging, but not one who uses conjecture and "what does that have to do with anything" pictures.

Defend him on his record, that is fairly easy, but defending him after Frost vs. Session is simply impossible.

I wasn't clear in my last post.

The Democratic party has been rewarding clubby failuure for a long time, and so our establishment is full of losers who have failed up.

Susan $%#@ing Estrichis (was?) on the DNC rules committee, for example, when she should not be managing a campaign for dog catcher, AND she's a Fox News punching bag.

Seriously. We need to fire a lot of them and replace them with people who aren't concerned with the DC cocktail party circuit.

Pol Pot...ouch!! But it's what is needed. I Don't believe Mr. Frost is up for the task at hand. How about your greatest political, Bill Clinton, running your party for real. The great Bubba should be able to talk any Democrat into anything he feels he needs to be competitive. Y'all would follow him off a cliff, maybe he needs to be drafted. I don't think he would accept the post without being drafted. It sure would show serious y'all are. Some of these candidates are just jokes waiting to happen.

Didn't want to do a new post and steal any of Byron's points, so I'll just leave a comment. Let me make a few things clear here:

1. Martin Frost isn't "chummy" with Republicans. They hate him. Tom DeLay had the power to eliminate any Democrats he wanted to and Martin Frost was at the top of his list. Frost has spent the last 30+ years of his life fighting off the GOP. He's a tough nut to crack.

2. As to Frost's progressive credentials:

AFL-CIO: 93 percent
Human Rights Campaign: 88 percent
Leadership Conference on Civil Rights: 92 percent
League of Conservation Voters: 85 percent
NAACP: 95 percent
NARAL Pro Choice America: 100 percent
National Hispanic Leadership Agenda: 83 percent

Thanks to Carl Whitmarsh for the numbers- nuff said.

3. Frost was being slandered on TV by Sessions- who was calling Frost an ultra liberal, America-hating, reflexively anti-Bush, Michael Moore style Leftist. Those things aren't true and left unchallenged they would have sunk him even worse than he ended up being sunk. How do you answer such charges? You say "Look, I'm not as crazy as Sessions claims I am- I even supported Bush on some things and I'm not that close to Ted Kennedy." Sessions made unfair and untrue accusations that would make it impossible for him to win, Frost took the quickest route to answering them, job done.

4. In terms of the streaking issue, aren't you all the ones pushing the DNC et. al to "flood the zone?" I mean, we all want that- a full-court press against the GOP that takes every charge, weakness, accusation, etc. that we have against them and rams it right down their throat. I don't give a damn that Bush probably did coke 30 years ago- its not important. I don't care that he got busted for DUI 30 years ago or was a C student 40 years ago or that he had some shady dealings in his business 20 years ago. Those things really aren't important, but I'll be damned if I wouldn't make an attack ad out of every one of them. Frost used what tools he had and didn't give Sessions a day off for an entire year. And to the poster who said that his "mudslinging" hurt downballot Dems in Dallas (I suppose you'd prefer for Frost to be cordial to Sessions as Sessions repeatedly kicked him in the nuts), I'd like to point out that this was the best year for Dallas County Democrats in a couple of decades thanks to Frost. So stop whining- he's doing what we want the DNC to do!

5. All of this is beside the point. Which of the candidates has an established track records of successfully electing Democrats? Donnie Fowler's only top tier work has been with losing candidates (Clark, etc.), Simon Rosenburg is more a big picture guy- not a lot of work on specific campaigns, Blanchard, Dean and Roemer haven't elected shit before. Frost elected 14 Democrats in 2 congressional elections as head of the DCCC (and held on to a number of vulnerable seats). That hadn't been done in over a decade and it hasn't been done since. Frost knows what it takes to win, and if we had pictures of him fellating George W. Bush I wouldn't care- I want to win.

Just my views, I could be wrong.

You can defend Frost on the issues, not that I'm sure why all that it is needed. Kos's piece was kinda crap but if there are serious ideological points that put them out of the mainstream of the party (ie Roemer) then it can be valid. I don't think any of the other candidates running really have too much wrong ideologically. The main issue in this race is reform v. status quo and also who really means it or is just saying the right things. I think Frost is a good politician, and I think that he knows what needs to be said in order to win. But I don't feel that he really understands any of it and isn't engaged with people outside of the 'click'. This was very obvious in Atlanta (and seems to have followed through in St. Louis).

He can keep talking about being an elected Democrat from Texas for X elections but his district was a Democratic district. So what. If he was like Chet Edwards and held on to his seat or something, that would be a valid claim, but I know he's going to keep using it because it sounds good to DNC delegates outside of Texas who think that all of Texas is one big map of Red.

Frost is certainly better than many Congresscritters, but as you know, not my choice.

Fine then, but I want to know- what exactly does Dean offer that makes him the best possible candidate for DNC Chairman? I mean, the guy has never won an election outside of Vermont- and barely squeaked by his last couple of times there. All of the innovations from his campaign were the work of Joe Trippi, not Dean himself, and Trippi has endorsed Rosenberg. He is perceived as a very liberal, out of touch, slightly neurotic failure. I love the guy, but what exactly does he bring that puts him over the top? Don't say that he wants a "50 state campaign"- they all say they want that. Don't talk about the Dean Dozen- 2/3 of them lost and he didn't do shit for them. Don't talk about the presidential campaign because that was Trippi's doing and don't talk about ideology because the chair has no role in that field.

Tell me- why Dean?

Because the Democratic Party is full of unproductive deadwood (Estrioch, Shrum, Brazile, etc.) who have continually fallen upward, and Dean is the person most likely to send them packing in the DNC.

It's not about the internet or netroots. It's not about small money fund raising.

The DNC chair is about making sure that the support structure of the party is filled with competent and aggressive operatives.

It clearly is not at this point, and I am dubious of anyone inside the beltway fixing this.

I don't think that Rosenberg or Fowler, who are deep inside the DC political scene, can go and fire so many friends.

Convince me otherwise, and I'll lobby for them, because I want the doctor to run for president in 2008, and he can't as DNC chair.

Andrew, what are you talking about? You mention Dean 5 times before even one other person said anything about him, and even that person said he doesn't want Dean as DNC chair.

Seriously, settle down. Christ.

that person said he doesn't want Dean as DNC chair.

Yes, but I think that we need him, or else someone willing to clean house.

1. Martin Frost isn't "chummy" with Republicans. They hate him.

I don't doubt it. Which means the "Even the DNC Chair thinks the Repubs are right for America" will taste even sweeter when the RWCM trot out the images to hammer Frost the minute he's elected Chair.

I don't doubt he's a tough nut to crack. Any Dem who has played in Texas politics over the last 20 yrs would have to be.

Doesn't make him the right choice for Chair.

3. Frost was being slandered on TV by Sessions- ...Sessions made unfair and untrue accusations that would make it impossible for him to win, Frost took the quickest route to answering them, job done.

A scenario that is likely to recur in various forms for Chairman Frost. So, a reasonable question arises. What will be the strategy then? A repeat of the same on a national scale?

Frost knows what it takes to win, and if we had pictures of him fellating George W. Bush I wouldn't care- I want to win.

See, now I'm needing the brain bleach again.

I'd much prefer Frost ride W like a pony.