Home

About
- Who We Are
- Community Guidelines
- Right to Respond
Advertising on BOR
- Advertise on BOR
- Buy on all Texas Blogs

Advertisements

Search




Advanced Search


Follow Burnt Orange Report on Twitter (@BOR) and Facebook.

Carville = Classless


by: Phillip Martin

Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 11:23 PM CDT


Link

“Mr. Richardson’s endorsement came right around the anniversary of the day when Judas sold out for 30 pieces of silver, so I think the timing is appropriate, if ironic,” Mr. Carville said, referring to Holy Week.

If Obama can pull it out, I'll say this -- I won't miss the Clinton consultant class. 

*Update*

Our reader, P. Criss, argued that I violated our own guidelines by not connecting this post to Texas, and by not adding much to the post beyond the link. Here's my attempt to amend that:

The fact is, in the model of Daily Kos, we at Burnt Orange Report believe that one way we can improve Texas politics is by pointing out when consutlants do good work, and when they do poor work. Bad Texas political consultants has hurt Texas Democrats in the past -- as we discussed in our "5 years ago" series -- and sometimes its important to recognize it now when we see it happening. Carville is an example of what we don't want to see in Texas -- consultants tearing each other apart for the sake of their own campaign, and beyond that, consultants making ludicrous comparisons because, well, they're idiots (and I include Carville in that category, and have for some time).

That being said, we also should be positive and support each other. To P. Criss' point, we should follow our own inherent community guidelines and respect each other, set grudges aside, and stop harboring ill will over nonsense. We like to think we're more grown up than that.

ADVERTISEMENT
Tags: (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
fun (0.00 / 0)
I sure look forward to seeing this guy next week in dallas. If I can maybe I'll ask him about that 10% thing as well.

Or more importantly, I'll ask him and Sen. Durbin to each explain for their candidates what each will do for Rick Noriega.


Me neither - I won't miss them (0.00 / 0)
Mark Penn, James Carville, Harold Ickes and Terry McAuliffe should all retire.  They are last breed of a dying campaign model.

Unfortunately, they won't go out easy.


The Buck Stops at Hillary (3.00 / 1)
Don't leave out the candidate herself.

The Clinton's are shameless, and I'm sick of it. I voted for Bill twice, but I'll never vote for another Clinton after the daily ration of crap they shovel at us.  


[ Parent ]
terry mcauliffe (0.00 / 0)
raised a hell of a lot of money for Democrats in an era before the internet made raising money easy.  His rebuilding of the DNC's finances and his incorporation of modern campaign technology made the gains seen during Howard Dean's tenure possible.  Don't forget what a shambles the party organization was in when he took over.  As for the rest, I'll agree with you, though Carville is mildly entertaining in small doses.

[ Parent ]
I Couldn't Agree More. (0.00 / 0)
Though I usually like Carville I couldn't agree more.  Comparing fellow Democrats to Judas is a big NO-NO.  Actually, comparing nearly anyone to Judas is pretty low.

Hear! Hear! (3.00 / 1)

And when Bill says,
"I think it would be a great thing if we had an election year where you had two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interest of this county...and people could actually ask themselves who is right on these issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics,"
it is so far over the line that I understand why Gen. McPeak invokes the memory of McCarthy.
  I have faithfully and financially supported Hillary until a few weeks ago when it became clear that she has decided to tout John McCain as the best presidental material if she in not the nominee of our party.  I have been watching presidential politics since 1940 and it is the first time that I have seen a Democratic candidate for the nomination praise the virtues of the Republican nominee over that of their Democrat opponent...and I cannot tell you how sad that makes me!  It smacks of a desperation to win at any cost that is unacceptable to me.  

Candidate for 32nd Congressional District of Texas.

[ Parent ]
Carville Coming to Texas Next Week (3.00 / 1)
  Trowaman raises a great point.  Carville is coming to Dallas on Tuesday to help Rick Noriega and the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee raise money.  They're having a free town hall meeting at McFarlin auditorium, SMU, at 5:30 p.m.

 I wonder if Rick Noriega will publicly repudiate Carville's comment at the forum?  I don't think he's made a decision on who he's supporting for President, so maybe he won't commit on this, either.

 Two well known U.S. Senators are also coming to the town hall to stand alongside Rick -- Dick Durbin and Barbara Boxer.  They seem to be rather odd choices to appear in Texas -- very progressive for a red state -- but they should help Noriega post a very strong fundraising total for the first quarter.  


Hillary is not the Messiah (0.00 / 0)
That it should have to be stated outright is a sign of how far the Clintons have gone off the rails.

Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

Yeah, I thought Obama was supposed to be the Messiah (0.00 / 0)
Either way, Mr. Matalin is quite obviously the Snake in the Garden.

Don't let the Blue Dogs getcha down. Primary them.

[ Parent ]
When is Terry McAuliffe going to retire? (3.00 / 1)

I honestly couldn't believe it when Sen.Clinton put her team together and she chose all the proven losers - hell, she should have just put Donna Brazile in charge and just gotten it over with.

Her campaign personnel are some of our worst Democratic political consultants out there, who have lost us election after election.

I don't get it - and I won't miss those people one damn bit, either, if Obama is nominated.  I would hope, finally, Democratic politicians would get the message that has been clear now for over 4 years - the same old shit isn't going to do it anymore.

One reason we are doing so well - besides the obvious:  Bush killed the conservative movement - is because of Howard Dean and his strategy to make every single state count.  That is in direct opposition to the way McAuliff and the rest of Clinton's team handles elections.  

And I'll just say this:  Bill and Hilary Clinton these last two weeks have been pulling shit that is so Rovian in flavor, to me, that I am really getting angry at them, and I hate that.  I do like the Clintons.  I wish they'd stop it - she's fueling the "scary black man" noncontroversy and churning it into a problem that really does not exist.  Rev. Wright isn't nearly as inflammatory as the entire Christian Right Wing.  Why aren't more people talking about that?  Because the Clinton campaign is keeping it alive.

I'm so ashamed of them for this, but not surprised.


Carville comments (1.67 / 3)
I agree with Carville.  Gov Richardson is an opportunist.  He knows that Hispanics will not vote for Senator Obama if he is nominated.  Also, he knows that Senator Obama will lose in November and Hispanics will vote for Senator McCain. If Senator Clinton does not get the nomination, as a Hispanic I will vote for Senator McCain.  I have spoken.

Ok, now I'll speak (3.00 / 3)

I haven't read one comment anywhere by an Obama supporter threatening to defect to the fascists if their candidate doesn't get nominated.  Yours is about the 5th Clinton supporter comment I've read with that threat.

What's the matter with Clinton supporters?  If she is the nominee, instead of Obama, who is my strong choice, I will get out there and campaign my ass off for her - despite my bad feelings for her right now.  Because I want a Democrat in the White House and both of them are progressive Democrats.

Get your heads screwed on  - quit whining like little bitches.  Man up  or woman up and do the right thing, for heaven's sake.

There's no excuse for these threats - you just make your candidate look like a Republican and you make yourself sound like a 4 year old who isn't getting his own way and is going to take his ball and go home.

It's silly.


[ Parent ]
you must be new here (0.00 / 0)
Obama supporters have been making this threat for months.

[ Parent ]
Haven't seen it (0.00 / 0)
What I have seen is people claiming that independents will vote for Obama but not Hillary, which seems to be to be very obvious.

And that Republicans will dig up their dead mother to vote twice against Hillary, but aren't quite that motivated to vote against Obama.

Do you not work with any right-wingers any more, Kedron?


[ Parent ]
no, I left the corporate world last month (0.00 / 0)
so I lost most of my right-winger focus group, but I did notice that Republicans were more favorable to Obama two months ago.  My prediction was always that reversion to the mean will occur once they find out more about him (how "liberal" he is and wild cards like this pastor thing).  We'll see.  

[ Parent ]
Doubt it (0.00 / 0)
The right-wingers I've worked with at the last two jobs spent years hating Hillary - even more than her husband - even when the Clintons weren't in office anymore. Obama would have to do some truly spectacular things to even become a junior member of their Pantheon of Hate.

[ Parent ]
We know who the real Democrats are now (0.00 / 0)
Real Democrats vote the ideals the party stands for, not the candidate or party label.  

Since every positive trait was purged from the Republican Party systematically nationwide from 1968 to 1994 if you bolt to McCain if Hillary loses then you prove you're worse than the Shiver-crats who threw in their lot with the GOP of the 1950s.  At least then there was the liberal Eastern faction of the GOP then that accepted the New Deal and internationalism.

McCain?  Can't even remember the difference between Sunni and Shia.


[ Parent ]
I'm with Tena; now I'll speak, too (3.00 / 1)
I'm sick to death of the damn threats. Go ahead. Go vote with the Republicans. It doesn't matter. Do you know why? Because the country is slowly but surely figuring out what a fraud he is, that a McCain presidency wiould just be a continuation of the same old Bush BS.

You know what else I don't understand? All those Hillary supporters are supposed to be the "clear-headed" ones, the ones that haven't been taken in by Obama's "magic oratory." Yet they're willing to let McCain nominate probably two, maybe more Supreme Court justices who will do everything they possibly can to reverse women's reproductive rights. Boy, that'd teach those folks not to vote for a woman, wouldn't it?

So yeah, like, Tena said, stop whining like little bitches. Sometimes life stinks and you don't get what you want. Except this time if you don't get what you want, life doesn't stink, but you get a fabulous, charismatic candidate whom you should proud to campaign for. Jesus H. Christ in a sidecar, people, get a grip.


[ Parent ]
Clinton is Done (0.00 / 0)
If someone thinks she is not, please explained the math to me on how the Clinton campaign will surge ahead in getting the remaining delegates to vote for her at the national convention.

The Texas Democratic Party needs to be preparing for the fall campaigns. Not fighting over a delegate here and a delegate there at the county and state conventions, when it is a done deal nationally.


I agree... (0.00 / 0)
completely.  It's very much time now to turn our attention to the Republicans.  That's our real objective - it's time to stop fighting over the nomination and starting fighting the  Republicans.

I suppose so many Clinton supporters who really put their hearts and souls into her candidacy are bitter right now, because it's clear, like you said, her candidacy is over.  So I guess I should give them a week or so to cool off before I take their nonsense to heart.  But I have just today read on DailyKos and TPM the same damn threat to vote for McCain from Clinton supporters.  

I really hope they don't mean that and I have decided to give them the benefit of the doubt in the hopes that they are just expressing their terrible disappointment.

In fact, my heart really does ache a bit for Hilary Clinton.  I don't want her as president for many carefully thought out reasons - the first and foremost being that I believe with all my being that political dynasties are anathema to democracy and the the thought of Bush Clinton Bush Clinton, gives me vertigo.  But I know how badly she wants this and I will quote Bill here:  I do feel her pain and her supporters' pain cause I can put myself where they are very easily.

I'm sorry guys - I'm sorry, Senator Clinton.  It's just not the right presidency for us now - it's the past.  We've been there.  I don't want anymore goddamn presidential re-dos!  


[ Parent ]
It's really not that complicated (0.00 / 0)
2,025 delegates needed for victory

Current Standings:

Obama: 1,624
HRC: 1498.5

Pennsylvania (next big prize): Clinton +17% (and increasing)

General Election Polls: Obama losing ground to McCain

Super Delegates: about 350 left, plus existing can change at any time.

Even if Obama is able to stop his current slide among independents (whom I predicted he would lose once they learned more about him), Democratic superdelegates have to consider how difficult it will be to win the swing states of Michigan and Florida with him as the nominee. Obama's strengths have been in caucus and red states -- neither of which will be a factor in the general.  He really needs to do well in Ohio, Michigan, Florida, Missouri, etc. to make the numbers work.  


[ Parent ]
what a great diary (0.00 / 0)
keep up the good work Phil. Are we still following the community guidelines?

No single or two-line journals--if it's a comment, put it in a comment thread. Don't clutter the journals with foolish commentary on BOR itself.

Be on topic: The topic of your post should be related in some way to Texas.

Substantive posts only: We promote good analysis to the front page regularly. No one line posts or cut and paste press releases.

Copy & pastes of entire copyrighted works is prohibited: When quoting something, keep it brief, link it, and

it.

Check your formatting: There are three formatting options available to you. Simpler is usually better.
Do not use ALL CAPS: The BOR community really dislikes this. KT will yell at you.  



Holding back... (3.00 / 2)
When we don't have a lot of new content, the front page writers do what we can to put up fresh content -- even if its just an open thread, or a quick hit. When we are producing a lot of fresh content (which isn't going to happen as much when we're in the middle of spring breaks, midterms, and/or holiday weekends), we relax the guidelines.

They are called guidelines for a reason -- they're meant to guide new readers. If you want to look at the history of my posts, I believe you'll see that I often write largely substantive posts, and refrain from short quickies (like this one is).

I appreciate your concern for the site, but I think we're doing OK.

Now, a very great man once said that some people rob you with a fountain pen.


[ Parent ]
Classy (1.00 / 1)
If Obama can pull it out, I'll say this -- I won't miss the Clinton consultant class.

BOR readers understand you are dogging the Clinton campaign in this post. Quit hiding, hardly respectable. I don't know how I missed the point of your original post...which is...1 sentence. I must have read to fast.


Burnt Orange Report believe that one way we can improve Texas politics is by pointing out when consutlants do good work, and when they do poor work. Bad Texas political consultants has hurt Texas Democrats in the past -

Laughable update...but hey, again, good work.  


Hiding? (0.00 / 0)
Who is hiding? We publicly and openly endorsed Obama. Judging from the comments, I think most agreed with my statement that Carville's comments were out of line.

You haven't spoken to the content of this post, but rather just attacked me -- and after I tried to honestly address your concerns. What's classy about that?

Now, a very great man once said that some people rob you with a fountain pen.


[ Parent ]
ok (0.00 / 0)
I'm not attacking you Phil. You shouldn't use words so loosely. I'm pointing out the obvious. I made a point that your post lacked content, and broke every rule you expect others to abide by.

Couple days ago you were threatening to suspend my account for violating community guidelines. You choose to threaten this action in a comment to the community and through a course of emails (a decision that represents your true desire here).

Now...when you are violating some of the same guidelines you expect others to follow and someone is calling you out on it, its wrong and worthy of the update portion of a post...that's what's classy. Good work.  


[ Parent ]
Yes Phil, I agree with you (1.00 / 1)
...regarding the stuff you mentioned about respecting each other, setting grudges aside, and not harboring ill will over nonsense. It seems to be working out swimmingly so far, don't you think?  :)

For some strange reason I'm suddenly remembering this weird little sh*t of a hall monitor back in elementary school. When things turned really ugly all the students and half the teachers cheered once the principal was out of hearing range. He soon transferred to another school, if memory serves.

LettersFromTexas.com


[ Parent ]
relevant to texas (0.00 / 0)
P. Criss would make a great grammarian, just the right touch of pedantry. Texas has a humongous bunch of Mexican-American-Chicanos as does the southern half of our neighbor, New Mexico - and if the Richardson endorsement isn't relevant to this bunch of miscreants who dislike the "Hispanic" label, courtesy of Nixon, and to Texas in the general election which so many of the Billarites threaten to throw, what is? Sen. Boxer, who voted for the damned wall, and Carville, who acts as if he's older than me (I'm 73)?  

Carville - off putting (0.00 / 0)
I am an independent supporting Obama.  My reluctance to commit to the Democratic party is behavior like Carville's. I don't want to trade one divisive leadership for another.  I will only support Democratic candidates and the party to the extent that they aggressively promote campaign and redistricting reform to level the playing field for moderates, centrists and independents.




Carville is a political jester (0.00 / 0)
I thought Carville was rather funny in his remarks. As I thought the remark was about him being the snake in the garden of Eden. I don't seriously think that Carville believes Obama or Richardson want to crusify Clinton or imprison her or kill her. I have no problem with over the top remarks such as those. All I have to say is GROW UP folks!

I have seen a lot of Obama supporters in this blog stating that they hate Clinton and will not vote for her. While she was not my first choice, she is without question the best one remaining. I find it obnoxious that such vitriol is put out by the so called new politics people. THAT is the OLD politics!

It is Obama and his supporters who are the ones who are concentrating on the petty things and NOT the issues. They are stretching what Bill Clinton said beyond belief. If you think Clinton disparaged Obama by saying two candidates, that is absurd. Right now we are concerned with just TWO candidates in this election. After the selection of our candidate there will be MORE than TWO candidates by the way. I guess Obama and his supporters are attacking the patriotism of Ralph Nader since they leave him out of the equation. Is THAT what Obama supporters mean to say? I don't think so, but if I do the same lack of logic that they employ, then Nader has a REAL point.


Glass Ceilings, Richardson's loyalty. Things that make you go hmmmm! (0.00 / 0)

If Hillary walked across Town Lake, there would be a post on BOR: "Hillary Can't Swim!"

I am sick of these attacks on Clinton and her supporters.  But don't worry.  Most Clinton supporters will support Obama this fall anyway - when he runs for Vice President with her!

Many voters (though not Obama himself) have demostrated that the glass ceiling is alive and well for women in this country.  But she won the Texas primary!  I am so proud of Texas Democrats!

Gov. Richardson ignored the results of the New Mexico Democratic Caucus (which Hillary Clinton won) and personal loyalty to Bill Clinton (who put Richardson on the National Map)to endorse Obama.  Things that make you go hmmmm.  

"Be kind to dogs - and vote Democratic!" -Senator Tom Eagleton


to be fair (0.00 / 0)
Obama's people have called the Clinton's everything from "McCarthy" to "Monster".

And calling someone "a Judas" is the insult du jour in Dem politics (just check BOR over the past year).  It only recently overtook "Delay tactics" and is poised to pass "the politics of Karl Rove" sometime next month.

I supposed HRC could give a speech talking about how Carville is like family and that family sometimes say the darndest things and we'll all hail it as the 'best since' speech of the century and forgive her AND him.

From the perspective of the Clinton folks (who appointed Richardson to the Cabinet and helped elect him Governor of NM) this is a betrayal.  "judas" and the pieces of silver remark are harsh and insulting...but this is hardly the first time they have been used by Dems, against Dems.

Carville and Begala are brilliant and elected a lot of great Dems over the years. Seeing as how they are the only consultants to win the presidency for our party in the last 30 years...I'll miss them a lot if they go.


Dear Readers (0.00 / 0)
Every front-page writer on BOR, including myself, votes straight-ticket Democrat. Doesn't matter who, we'll vote for the Democrat. So if you want to quibble among each other about "loyal Democrats" and "Obama/Clinton supporters not supporting Clinton/Obama in the fall" that's fine, but that doesn't hold true from anyone working to bring you this site.

If there's crap-tastic consultants and foolish moves by campaigns, we should call them out if there's lessons to be learned. I wrote a post a couple months ago about problems with Noriega's campaigns -- I don't limit criticism to just "opponents."

As someone who's sat in on David Gergen's classrooms, I'll tell you this -- for example -- I can tell you that about half of the "brilliant analysis" he has on TV comes from regular students in his classroom. These guys aren't smarter than anyone, and don't deserve any holy reverence. They're just closer to the real superstars -- the candidates that put their names and reputations and lives on the line to try and make a vision a reality.

Now, a very great man once said that some people rob you with a fountain pen.


absolutely (0.00 / 0)
It is all theory and instincts and lots of luck.

I happen to think that a lot of the feedback that can be gained from blogs helps shape the strategy and messaging of consultants and, therefore, campaigns.

Carville and company are personally hurt and folks often say outrageous things when they are hurt...even about other Dems.

I'm not sure that anyone has anything bad to say about Richardson and Carville definitely stepped in it with this remark.


[ Parent ]
Burnt Orange Reader

Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?


Poll
Who would you vote for in the Democratic Primary for Ag Commission?
Kinky Friedman
Hank Gilbert

Results

Advertisement

Best of Texas Left
- (Complete Directory)
- A Capitol Blog
- As the Island Floats
- B & B
- Bay Area Houston
- Blue Bloggin
- Bluedaze
- Brains and Eggs
- Capitol Annex
- Collin County Democrats
- Collin County Observer
- Community Forum
- Dog Canyon
- Dos Centavos
- Easter Lemming Liberal
- Eye on Williamson County
- Feet to the Fire
- Greg's Opinion
- Grits for Breakfast
- Half Empty
- Houtopia
- In the Pink Texas
- Kiss My Big Blue Butt
- Letters from Texas
- McBlogger
- Mean Rachel
- Musings
- North Texas Liberal
- Off the Kuff
- Panhandle Truth Squad
- Para Justicia y Libertad!
- Pink Dome
- San Antonio Mayor
- South Texas Chisme
- StoudDemBlog
- Texas Clover Leaf
- Texas Kaos
- The Caucus Blog
- There..Already
- Three Wise Men
Best of Texas Right
- Blogs of War
- BlogHouston
- Boots and Sabers
- Lone Star Times
- Publius TX
- Rick Perry vs the World
- Safety for Dummies
- Slightly Rough
- Urban Grounds
Other Texas Reads
- Burka Blog
- D Magazine
- DOT Show
- Statesman Elections
- Strong Political Analysis
- Texas Monthly
- Texas Observer
- The Texas Blue
- Quorum Report Daily Buzz
Around Austin
- Austin Bloggers
- Austin Chronicle
- Austin Contrarian
- Austin Metblogs
- Austin on Two Wheels
- Austin Real Estate Blog
- Austin Statesman
- Austin Texas Bike Shit Stuff
- Austin Towers
- Austinist
- Capital MetroBlog
- Daily Texan
- Do512
- Downtown Austin Blog
- East Austinite
- Elise Hu
-
Flash Mob Austin
- Keep Austin Blue
- M1EK
- Travis County Democrats
- University Democrats
TX Progressive Orgs
- ACLU Legislative Blog
- Atticus Circle
- Criminal Justice Coalition
- Equality Texas
- Latinos for Texas
- NOW Texas
- PFAW Texas
- Public Citizen
- SEIU Texas
- Tejano Insider
- Texas AFT
- Texas HDCC
- Texas Watch
- TFN
- TSTA
- TSEU
- Texas Young Democrats
- United Ways of Texas
TX Elections/Returns
- TX Returns 1992-present
- TX Media/Candidate List

- Bexar County
- Collin County
- Dallas county
- Denton County
- El Paso County
- Fort Bend County
- Harris County
- Jefferson County
- Tarrant County
- Travis County

- CNN 1998 Returns
- CNN 2000 Returns
- CNN 2002 Returns
- CNN 2004 Returns
- CNN 2006 Returns
- CNN 2008 Returns
Traffic Ratings
- Alexa Rating
- Quantcast Ratings
-
Syndication

Burnt Orange Reporters
Publisher - Karl-Thomas M.
Editor-in-Chief - Matt G.
Staff Writer - David M.
Staff Writer - Katherine H.
Staff Writer - Michael H.
Staff Writer - Todd H.
Man of Mystery - Phillip M.
Founder - Byron L.

Powered by: SoapBlox