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Clinton Caucus Disruption/Vote Suppression


by: Glenn Smith

Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 10:06 PM CST


The Dallas Morning News is reporting that Clinton campaign training materials regarding Tuesday night's caucuses ominously advise supporters to take control of caucus sign-in sheets and vote tallies especially "if our supporters are outnumbered."

[Clinton caucus training material] goes on to say, "If our supporters are outnumbered, ask the Temporary Chair if one of our supporters can serves as the Secretary, in the interest of fairness.
"The control of the sign-in sheets and the announcement of the delegates allotted to each candidate are the critical functions of the Chair and Secretary. This is why it is so important that Hillary supporters hold these positions."

Now there can be only one purpose in trying to control the tally of votes under circumstances in which a campaign knows it's outnumbered, that it will lose an honest counting of the votes:  to alter the true vote. To cheat. To steal. To suppress the votes of Texas caucus attendees and subvert the caucus process.

The phrase, "if our supporters are outnumbered," means, in simpler language, "If we lose the vote, take control of the vote tally and change the numbers."

Place this alongside the Clinton campaign threats to challenge the Texas caucuses and you get a full picture of what Clinton is up to:  disrupt the caucuses at all costs. Steal votes, delay the reporting of honest vote totals, throw the process into chaos, do whatever it takes.

UPDATE -- There are other reactions, and links to perspectives on the Nevada caucus controversies involving Clinton campaign shenanigans, at DailyKos and Politico.
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Clinton Caucus Disruption/Vote Suppression | 140 comments
Thats a big leap there. (3.67 / 3)
I would assume that both campaigns would want their supporters as the chair or secretary. Automatically assuming that the underlying reason is to cheat is a long, cynical leap to a conclusion not supported by any evidence.

I am sure that Obama's campaign is also telling its activists to try and become the chairperson or secretary as well.  

I have lost faith in Clinton's honesty (2.33 / 3)
A few months ago I would give her campaign the benefit of the doubt, but given the sleazy campaign tactics as of late, I no longer have enough faith in her to believe that this isn't likely an attempt to disrupt the system and cheat.  But with all she's done with the Michigan/Florida situation, race-baiting in South Carolina, the Ann Richard's ad, sleazy attacks on Obama, etc, this kind of thing is no longer above her.

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."- James A. Baldwin
[ Parent ]
The tip-of is... (0.00 / 0)
The phrase about being outnumbered. That's what is so suspicious. If it had said, be sure to secure leadership positions if you are in the majority to make sure a minority doesn't alter the results....well, that would be different and understandable.

No, these are instructions to protect Clinton from a majority caucus vote against her.

[ Parent ]
before you take your foot out of your mouth (2.00 / 2)
understand that the positions of Secrety and Chair are ELECTED positions and Clinton is advocating an undemocratic appointment, beyond the rules of the process, in order to put her people in place for God knows what reason..

Point blank, if they have the numbers, they can vote in their people, but where they are outnumbered, they can take a back seat to the Obama caucus goers

[ Parent ]
That's why they have the line about "fairness" (0.00 / 0)
If honest caucus goers are aware that a "fairness" argument about splitting the leadership posts is intended to secure some control of the tallies, then the process will work as you say. If Obama supporters happen to be in the majority, they will be wary. Because it's not about fairness at all.
[ Parent ]
I think you're reading into it more than is there (5.00 / 1)

The part you paraphrase before the excerpt you cite says this:

"DO NOT allow the supporter of another candidate to serve in leadership roles."

I take that to mean that Clinton supporters should do everything they can to elect their own precinct captain or other supporter as Permanent Convention Chair or Temporary Chair.

Then, "if our supporters are outnumbered," meaning they LOSE the vote for Permanent Convention Chair or Temporary Chair, they should "ask the Temporary Chair" if one of Clinton's supporters can serve as the Secretary, "in the interest of fairness." In other words, allow them a place at the table without a vote, which they would likely lose because they are outnumbered.

I think they're just telling their people to do whatever they can not to be shut out of the leadership roles altogether.

And I say to them: Good luck with that.

[ Parent ]
This is misconstruing what is being advised... (4.33 / 3)
Anyone who has voted can be temporary chair and temporary secretary. Once the convention is called to order, those present get to nominate and elect the permanent chair and secretary.

Often, the convention elects the person already doing the job if they are not threatened by them and think they are acting appropriately. However, the permanent chair and permanent secretary are elected.

Many precincts are grouped together. Many precincts do not have precinct chairs. An election judge or precinct chair may conduct the election for several precincts, but we can only participate in ONE precinct convention. Therefore, we are looking for someone from the other precincts to serve as secretary and temporary chair. Personally, I will be looking for people who will be compentent, who will not be abrasive to any of the participants, who will be fair to eveyone present and who will conduct business according to Roberts Rules of Order and Democratic Party Rules.

If a campaign advises its people to volunteer to convene a convention or serve as temporary secretary, that absolutely appropriate. It is my responsiblity to decide whether the volunteer will serve in the best interest of all participants.

Truthfully, I'll try to find someone who has been active in the party if possible. People willing to serve as temporary chair or temporary secretary can call the election judge and tell the judge (before election day) that they live in the pct which does not have a pct chair and would like to serve. Most election judges appreciate this. Knowing that people are willing and are acting professionally prior to the start of the caucus takes a little of the pressure off on a very hectic day.

As election judge I am responsible for checking the voting list to be sure that anyone from the other pct asking "for the packet" has voted in the Democratic Primary and lives in that precinct. I get to choose among the volunteers who to give the packet to (Temporary Chair). From that point forward, the election judge (if not a resident of the precinct) has nothing to do with that precinct convention. The people who show up from that precinct elect the permanent chair and secretary.  No campaign gets to shut the other one out. It must be conducted by party rules or the delegates will be challenged and they will have to prove their credentials when they go to Senatorial.

If someone shows up spouting off rhetoric like some of the comments in this post, they will not get the packet. That will merely show me that the person has little understanding of how the process works. Delegates are decided not by who is the loudest and most abrasive but according to the number of people who show up who voted in the primary from that precinct.

Faith Chatham

[ Parent ]
I have the material that the MISQUOTE is taken from (5.00 / 1)
It says "If no one is there to convene e your precinct convention, ask for the packet."

This is exactly what we (all Democrats) were told by Tarrant County election officials and the Tarrant County Democratic Party  in training. If no one (ie election judge or pct chair) is there to convene the convention acting as temporary chair, anyone present can assume leadership and convene the convention as long as they are a registered voter in that precinct and voted in the Democratic Primary. However, these instructions are IF THERE IS NO ONE PRESENT to convene the precinct convention.

If the Election Judge and/or pct chair is still letting the last people who arrived before 7 p.m. vote, that does not constitute "not having anyone present to convene the convention."  That is a different case. NO ONE is allowed to convene the convention until the last person in line before 7 p.m. has voted or before 7:15 p.m.

The "if no one is present to convene the convention" rule exists so that if a voter shows up to a convention and no one else shows up, that voter can assume leadership and act as chair of the pct convention even if no one else shows up.

This is why I've been saying that Glen is making much more of the statement than is appropriate, attributing motives where there aren't any, and stirring up distrust when it is unnecessary and inappropriate.

Faith Chatham

[ Parent ]
The first casualty of war is the truth. (3.00 / 2)
Obama is amazing at flipping the script on Hillary.  I am a Precinct Captain for Hillary -- trust me, no nefarious b.s. going on.  My package is plain, simple and to the point.  We have received training on the Precinct Convention -- NOT on how to lie, cheat and ramrod our way through the election.  As a matter of fact, we have been working O/T just to get Hillary voters in my inner-city, working class, under-educated, predominantly Mex/Am community in San Antonio to be aware of the Step #2 process of the Precinct Convention/Caucus.

However, what we are concerned with are Obama's tactics that apparently have worked quite well for him, thus far.  Case in point... my Precinct Chair, an Obama supporter, informed me (totally unaware of my support status) that during the Caucus/Convention that if I don't see one of my friends and neighbors from the Precinct in attendance, that I am then able to phone them, and sign in their name by proxy -- what?!  TOTALLY FALSE information.  We spent 3 days, speaking to Bexar County Election officials, State Demoratic Party officials, attorneys, etc. etc. to of course, conclude that this is total B.S.  I returned to said Precinct Chair with the findings and attempted to correct him -- all to NO AVAIL.  This is the strategy.  And, this is what will be played out tomorrow evening at the Precinct Convention in my Precinct.  Not to mention, I have attacked, assailed and spit on... yes, spit on at my neighborhood Early Voting site by an Obama lover because our Site is predominantly voting for Hillary.  This person cussed me out, spit, etc. because for whatever reason stuck in her head by the Obama folks, we are "stealing" the election.  This is the vitriol and basic LIES that is being spread by the BO Campaign.  My other friend working the poll was accused of being a Racist and fearful of Blacks -- on and on.  What's sad is that I have voted for 30 years now, and these tactics would NEVER enter my head, but now I'm being accused of it based on what?  BLATANT LIES.  

My fear is that these tactics will be implemented in areas of our community, like the government Projects, where there is a very low literacy rate, and where I know for a fact that Obama supporters have infiltrated -- a place where Obama strategically held his first Rally in San Antonio.  So, it turns out that not only do we have to educate and inform our citizenry that is not aware of Step 2, but to also inform them of the above-mentioned Obama tactics.

I cringe each time that I hear that Obama is "so good at winning the Caucus" and justifiably so.  So, when I read all of this disgust and ourtrage against Hillary, perhaps, you BO supporters could just hold up on the unjustified anger and outrage, because if she does win Texas and on to the nomination, you will have to make a big decision about who you will vote for in November.  As it stands, many BO folks contend that they will not vote for Hillary.  But, what y'all are not considering is that all of the tremendous NEGATIVITY towards Hillary plays both ways for her supporters.  If BO wins, then you will have MANY, MANY fences to mend.  And, do NOT count on everyone immediately jumping on board with y'all -- especially not after these BO tactics and the despicable displays of anger and negativity continually aimed towards Hillary.  

[ Parent ]
I agree, but ... (3.00 / 1)
I agree, Glenn has made some broad accusations against the HRC campaign and the outrage that as ensued is unfair and unjustified. But you do the same thing against Obama. And for every anecdotal piece of evidence of abuse I can come back with one that goes the other way.

We've all made this too black and white and have forgotten that these campaigns and this election really matter to real people and it isn't just a political game.

[ Parent ]
I am a person, not a quantifiable statistic (3.00 / 3)
I do the same thing against Obama?  Get real.  I do NOT have the prestige and power of a newspaper.  I am a person who just shared her experience, and if you want to characterize it as merely anecdotal, then have it.  However, minimizing my position does not make your position any more real because you are citing and refering to the Dallas Morning News' talking points.  You know, unless the DMN has a scientific, irrefutable piece of information, then the journalist(s) who wrote that article are merely positing their anecdotal perspective just as much as mine.

TRUTH:  Hillary Precinct Captains are NOT being trained to lie, cheat and steal the election.  Get over yourself.  Go vote and truly engage in the democratic process.  Please Stop perpetuating and promoting these myths and innuendo.  And, may I also suggest doing what my 8th grade History teacher suggested -- DO NOT believe everything you read in the newspaper and read on T.V. to be the gospel truth.

All these rumors do is detract from the REAL issues facing our country.  Please, enough whining.  If BO is truly ahead and leading the country in a movement -- FEAR NOT and stop the baseless attacks.

[ Parent ]
Oy. (2.50 / 2)
You are joking right?

Trying to seat the Florida/Michigan voters is silly, but its not going to work and everyone knows it. Sleazy attacks on Obama? I am sorry, but in a heated primary like this the ads have been pretty tame, ESPECIALLY considering what we know the eventual nominee will face from the repub. attack machine.

I can understand you dont like her campaign (or her staff) and  are voting for Obama: heck, I dont like her campaign staff and some of their tactics either! But to claim that they are going to out and out try and steal/manipulate caucus votes after the fact by cheating, I think is just beyond the pale...

She's still trying (0.00 / 0)
with Florida/Michigan, even if it won't work.  She broke her promise to not campaign in Florida, and is clearly trying to manipulate it to her advantage.

And of course, there is pretending someone who died (Ann Richards) would have endorsed you and making a video about it that appeals to nothing but identity politics and reverence for that person.  Than asking the family (two of her sons) if they approve of it, they say no but say they won't sue, and the going ahead and posting it anyway.

I'm talking about more than ads, I'm talking about desperate attacks on Obama's "plagiarism".  The Republicans are gonna do it too, so?  That doesn't justify anyone on our side doing it.

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."- James A. Baldwin

[ Parent ]
Just because her supporters who were in charge of the count in New York... (4.00 / 2)
... somehow reported dozens of precincts with zero votes for Obama (and no precincts that reported zero for Clinton)... doesn't mean that there was CHEATING going on.

And even if there was... it doesn't necessarily mean it would happen again.

Right?

[ Parent ]
I suspect that there were pcts in NY which did not vote for Obama (0.00 / 0)
After all, she is their Senator and he is from another region.

There may be some in the Chicago area which won't vote for Hillary but that won't necessarily mean that there is voter fraud going on.


Faith Chatham

[ Parent ]
The concern comes from a Feb 16 New York Times article (3.00 / 1)
Unofficial tallies in City understated Obama vote
by Sam Roberts
published 2/16 New York Times

Black voters are heavily represented in the 94th Election District in Harlem's 70th Assembly District. Yet according to the unofficial results from the New York Democratic primary last week, not a single vote in the district was cast for Senator Barack Obama.

...............

In the Harlem district, for instance, where the primary night returns suggested a 141 to 0 sweep by Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, the vote now stands at 261 to 136. In an even more heavily black district in Brooklyn - where the vote on primary night was recorded as 118 to 0 for Mrs. Clinton - she now barely leads, 118 to 116.

You may have to register to read the whole story.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02...

[ Parent ]
She did not campaign in FL! (2.00 / 2)
Obama had radio spots going in FL during the embargo, but Clinton DID NOT have 1 ad going.  She showed up AFTER the polls closed, which did not violate any pre-agreed upon rules.

As for the Ann ad, Ann's daughter approved the ad, and they asked BEFORE airing it.  The sons only disapproved AFTER it aired.

Obama is guilty of plagiarism, it's pretty simple.  I will however concede that most politicians and journalists are though also.

And if you want to get all hot and bothered about Republican ads, then you have to ask Barry why he used a Republican/Insurance company attack ad against another Democrat, and then shrugged it of as, politics as usual.  I thought he was the agent of change?  He showed he is just the agent of rhetoric.

[ Parent ]
Wrong (3.00 / 2)
"Though Democrats agreed to leave the state off their itineraries in a show of solidarity with the national party, Clinton attended permitted fund-raisers in Florida on Sunday and planned to appear with supporters there after polls closed."  http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITI...

Do you have a link on these supposed "radio ads"?

On the Ann Richards add:
"They said they wanted to send it to women in Texas to show that my mom would have supported Hillary Clinton, and they asked if it was OK and whether I would approve it," he said. "I wrote them a very nice note back, Clark (his brother) and I did, that just said, 'Hey, we don't really want to be part of this.' We don't presume to know what she would have done when she was alive, much less when she is deceased. We don't approve it and we'd rather nobody use her name in a political ad."
http://www.kvue.com/news/local...

As far as Obama's plagiarism, taking a line that a supporter gives to you to use is not plagiarism.  As Obama said, it's "silly season" in politics.  Plus, all politicians have speech writers.  Are they guilty of plagiarism for using an idea one of their speech writer's wrote?

On this:
And if you want to get all hot and bothered about Republican ads, then you have to ask Barry why he used a Republican/Insurance company attack ad against another Democrat, and then shrugged it of as, politics as usual.  I thought he was the agent of change?  He showed he is just the agent of rhetoric.
Have any evidence?

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."- James A. Baldwin

[ Parent ]
I don't remember seeing Ann Richard's sons on the platform at her memorial service (5.00 / 1)
However, the family invited Hilliary to give the eulogy and she did it eloquently.

I think that Ann would be very proud of Hillary. I suspect she'd be traveling with her if she were here and able.


Faith Chatham

[ Parent ]
Likely (0.00 / 0)
It's very probably that Ann would have endorsed and stumped for Hillary.  However, that's not something you can assume 100% and it's wrong to do so, especially against the wishes of some of her children.

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."- James A. Baldwin
[ Parent ]
Ask and you shall recieve... (0.00 / 0)
http://tpmelectioncentral.talk...

"The Hillary campaign opened fire on the Obama camp in a conference call with reporters today, accusing Obama of breaking the pledge. That prompted Obama spokesperson Bill Burton to issue a statement saying that "both national cable networks told us it would be impossible for us to run advertising nationally that excluded only Florida."

http://adage.com/campaigntrail...

And I'll add this...why did they ask the SC primary chair if the National ad would violate the pledge, and not the DNC?

"Both national cable networks told us it would be impossible for us to run advertising nationally that excluded only Florida. For that reason we consulted with the South Carolina Democratic Party Chair, Carol Fowler, who told us unequivocally she did not consider this to be in violation of pledge made to the early states," said Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton.

http://news.aol.com/political-...
"Richards' youngest daughter Ellen approved the ad saying, "I believe that if my mom were alive today that she would be stumping across Texas and around the country supporting Hillary for president".

And as for your last question, I think video evidence is even more compelling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Against Obama's Healthcare ad...

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/b...

And as far as plagarism...it's one thing to take a line, or two and use it in one speech.  But to take entire passages from different speeches and use them over and over is completely another all together.

Again...just a small sample...but let's go to the video, shall we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

[ Parent ]
Response (0.00 / 0)
http://tpmelectioncentral.talk...

"The Hillary campaign opened fire on the Obama camp in a conference call with reporters today, accusing Obama of breaking the pledge. That prompted Obama spokesperson Bill Burton to issue a statement saying that "both national cable networks told us it would be impossible for us to run advertising nationally that excluded only Florida."
You're explanation for that is right in the quote.

"Richards' youngest daughter Ellen approved the ad saying, "I believe that if my mom were alive today that she would be stumping across Texas and around the country supporting Hillary for president".
One child out of three, and her daughter's belief doesn't make certain what Ann would have thought.

The first youtube video is from 1994 about Hillary's health care then back then.  I'm not sure what you think it proves.

As far as the "plagiarism", it was only a couple of lines.  And I don't see what the big deal is when many politicians have their speech writer's write entire speeches.  It's just as likely Obama gave the line to this guy in their many talks.  It's not like the idea he was using is particularly unique, it's a pretty obvious response to the criticism that it's responding too.

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."- James A. Baldwin

[ Parent ]
Rebuttal (0.00 / 0)
You're right it is in the quote.  He campaigned in the state.  He bought a National ad, and it aired in the state during the embargo.

Exactly...the video, IS the Republican attack ads that aired in '94.  The flyers reprise those attacks, even down to the formating and setting of the players.  I KNOW it proves that Obama used a Republican attack ad against another DEM.

A couple of lines?  It was entire passages!  And even Obama said the speech writer didn't give it to him, when called on it, he had to admit that Patrick gave it to him.  Obvious huh?  It sure is.  It's obvious that in addition to doing the wink wink, nod nod w/ Canada, he's trying to do the same with his suppporters and the rest of America.

Just words?  Just empty rhetoric......

[ Parent ]
The hyper-rationalizations against Hillary is amazing (3.00 / 1)
C'mon folks, everyone in their right mind knows that Ann Richards loved Hillary and gave her unending support.  She was on the campaign stump for Hillary when she ran for New York Senate.  Unless you were hiding under a rock or hiding in your mixed up mind of hyper-rationalizations against Hillary, Ann Richards support of Hillary was more than obvious.  And, if Ann Richards' sons are complaining after the fact, and after the ad was more than approved by her daughter, then that's really sad and really an injustice towards their mom who was a HUGE Hillary supporter.
[ Parent ]
Likeliness is not certainty (0.00 / 0)
Who knows what Ann Richard's who have thought of Obama or the election at this point?  It is disrespectful to speak for the dead and assumed 100% that Richard's would have supported Hillary just for their past friendship or even worse, because she was a women.  Is it most likely Richard's would have supported Clinton?  Yes.  Is it certain?  No.  And therefore, it is very arrogant of the Clinton campaign to assume it was.

Her sons complained before the add was aired when the campaign asked about it, and after they said they wouldn't sue, the campaign aired it anyway.

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."- James A. Baldwin

[ Parent ]
Well, apparently her daughter would disagree with you (2.33 / 3)
You are right, we can NOT speak for the dead -- but you certainly can NOT and your argument is a very weak one, given the history and life-long relationship that Hillary and Ann shared.  To insinuate that Ann would have endorsed BO is pretty far out there.  The only arrogance here is you and your lame position -- do the numbers.  The odds that Ann would've endorsed BO over Hillary is astronomically low.  Get over it and move on.  And, the fact that Ann's daughter approved of the ad only furthers the point for Hillary.  Timothy--it's just one more thing that the BO guys just refuse to grasp, and that negativity will inevitably backfire on your candidate.
[ Parent ]
I'm not speaking for her, no one can, that's my point (0.00 / 0)
I am NOT saying that she would have endorsed Obama, and Obama's campaign hasn't made a video claiming that she would have.  I even admit that Ann most likely would have endorsed Hillary.  So you're criticizing me for believing she would have endorsed Obama is a straw man.  My whole argument is based on the fact that there is no 100% certainty either way, so it is very inappropriate for either campaign to use her name in a way that says she absolutely would have supported either candidate.

Clinton's campaign and poor showing in the last what it is, 12 primaries, is proof that negative campaigning doesn't work very well.

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."- James A. Baldwin

[ Parent ]
Floridians want to vote, Hillary does NOT have to prod them (0.00 / 0)
Timothy--have you spoken to any Floridians or people from Michigan?  You shouldn't speak for them or make false claims about Hillary without doing just that.  I have relatives in Florida and friends in Flint, MI.  Trust me, Floridians are furious about there votes basically not counting.  You know, everyday voters didn't decide about the Primary -- that was implemented by the Republican Legislature.  What I find alarming is how BO supporters have become completely calloused towards these Floridians and in effect, supporters of disenfranchisement of their vote.  Yes, they need to have their voices and their votes count in some way, shape or form.  Donna Brazille, a DNC official, has said that they will inevitably go to a Caucus, because not seating them, disenfranchising their vote is an outrage and an affront to our democratic process.  And, BO supporters should be outraged at that as well.  Instead, all I see is support for the disenfranchisement and hyper-rationalizations.  Why?  Because, Florida does NOT favor Obama.

As far as broken promises not to campaign... get your facts straight.  Obama sneakily campaigned in Florida for up to 2 weeks running T.V. and radio ads non-stop.  Of course, he was exempt because his contention was that he was running ads nationally, so of course, the rules had to be bent for Obama.  Obama also had fundraisers in Florida, so he indirectly campaigned there all along.  He also placed himself on the ballot along with Hillary.  And, voters could have voted for him, but they did NOT-- he got whomped by Hillary.  That is really the base of the BO argument--FEAR.  But, what BO and his supporters do not realize is this-- Floridians are blaming BO for lobbying against them at the Convention.  And, if his fear continues to promote this disenfranchisement of Floridians not to vote or be seated -- then, they have vowed to vote for McCain.  BO can not and will NOT win the general election without Florida, but McCain can.  So, I think that BO and all his supporters should stop and think about this RATIONALLY before you proceed any further with the baseless, senseless arguments against Hillary and Florida.  In the final analysis, it will be BO's undoing.

[ Parent ]
I'm fine with a redo (3.00 / 1)
but counting those votes from a invalid primary that wasn't going to count is not an acceptable result.  If Floridians have an issue they should take it up with the state party and legislature who CHOSE to put them in this predicament.  The DNC made the rules very clear and any disenfranchisement is the fault of the state of Florida and Michigan and the state parties, not the DNC or Obama for trying to keep the results from an invalid primary from being counted.  What is the point of rules if they aren't enforced?

Now I would be OK with allowing the voters of Michigan and Florida to have a new primary or caucus in order to give those voters a voice, even though their state parties broke the rules the first time and they really should be punished for breaking them.

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."- James A. Baldwin

[ Parent ]
Then please explain another reason... (1.60 / 5)
Why it's important to seize leadership positions if the Clinton supporters are outnumbered or in the majority. As I said above, protecting the integrity of the process from cheating by the other side is understandable and defensible. Suggesting that control of the tallies in the event of being outnumbered is extremely suspicious, and can really only mean one thing.
[ Parent ]
It has been explained (3.67 / 3)
That is not what they are saying. They are telling supporters to be viligant to be sure that their candidate is treated fairly.

The math is not something done in secret. It is available for review by any participant at the caucus. People are encouraged to bring calculators and figure it along with the chair. No one is trying to make a mistake or fudge the numbers.

Again, I say much more is being made of this than it warrants. There is no sinister assault being advised. There is nothing constructive about getting people who have never participated in the convention before looking for sinister plots that are not real.



Faith Chatham
[ Parent ]
Glen, are you a precinct chair? (0.00 / 0)
Have you served as election clerk? Maybe you have but you don't sound like you understand the process.  

I've never had a problem at a precinct convention (when I was not a judge or clerk) with one side being unfair to the other. The math is straight forward. Usually, if the race is hotly contested as this year, if the secretary or chair is of one camp, someone from the other camp will be encouraged to sit at the table with the secretary and "help out." Everyone gets to watch how the math is done. No one takes the numbers, goes into a closet and comes out with some "poof" funny numbers out of a hat.

If a blackboard is present, we do it on the board. If there is a big pad of paper on an easel, we use that. If not, the paper is passed around so that everyone who wants to check it can.  

The minutes are straight forward fill in the blank. They are signed that night in the presence of the attendees.

The problem that sometimes arose was some exhuberent eager beavers took the delegate list home if there were not enough people present to fill all the delegate slots. This was always a problem and created distrust and was in violation of party rules. This year Boyd Ritchie and our county party have both issued statements that no delegates or alternates are to be added to the precinct list after the preinct convention is adjourned. I am very thankful for that.

If someone doesn't get out through the precinct, they can submit a request to the nominations committee to be considered for at large delegate. If they meet the criteria they may get to still go to senatorial and maybe even  state as an at large delegate.  I doubt that we'll have as many at large delegates this year because it looks like most of the delegations will have more attendees at the precinct conventions to help fill out the delegations at the precinct convention level.


Faith Chatham

[ Parent ]
Using the Republican's smear tactics to elevate BO is wrong (2.00 / 2)
Protecting the process does NOT have to equate to blaming Hillary for all things that go wrong tomorrow--and many things will invariably go wrong -- on BOTH sides.  But, what is particularly troubling to me is that it is quite obvious, not just on BOR, but on many other blogs and forums is the acute readiness displayed by the BO supporters to blame and smear Hillary according to the Republican's smear-machine and their talking points.  You know, Dallas Morning News isn't exactly the bastion of the Democratic Party or of Hillary fondness.  It is very alarming when I see the Obama supporters so quick to jump on the Republican's talking points in an effort to smear Hillary and elevate their candidate.  This is NOT a vast Hillary conspiracy as is promoted and perpetuated by the BO folks.  But, this is turning into a definite wedge between Hillary supporters and BO supporters.  As a former BO supporter, who became disillusioned and quite disgusted with the OPEN negative, sexist and lies that so readily rolled off the BO supporters lips, I had to drop by support for Obama.  Obama fans, especially the men, really need to tone it down, and please stop parroting the Republican's talking points.  This will not be forgotten so easily, so it behooves BO and his supporters to chill out.  This is a main reason why BO can't close the deal with the women.  
[ Parent ]
Just get out there... (4.00 / 2)
And run it fair.  Win or lose.
Amen! (4.33 / 6)
Look, the numbers are the numbers.  There will be some precincts with a higher number of Clinton supporters and some precincts with a higher number of Obama supporters (of which I am one).  There will be more attendees at my precinct convention this year than at any time since I started voting in presidential elections (1980), but I can count and do math as well now as I could then.  If there are more Obama supporters there than Clinton supporters at my precinct convention then shame on me (and the others) if we don't elect the most delegates.  We may need to enroll in a remedial math  class.  Shame on us, too, if we don't all treat one another fairly and with respect.  We all need to remember that regardless of who wins the Democratic nomination, we will both want the supporters of the other candidate to get out and work to defeat the Republican nominee in November.      
[ Parent ]
Well said (0.00 / 0)
Thank you Atticus.
[ Parent ]
Agreed (5.00 / 3)
Can we not put faith in our fellow Democrats to run a fair caucus?  I'd be much more worried if Republicans and Democrats were combined in the same caucus.
[ Parent ]
Atticus22 that's the best comment so far on this diary n/t (3.00 / 1)


Faith Chatham
[ Parent ]
Here we all agree (3.00 / 1)
As I commented below, I simply want to alert caucus goers. I do have faith in all our participants, whomever they support. And I want all of their preferences recorded honestly.
[ Parent ]
It doesn't matter who gets there early (2.00 / 2)
The precinct chair gets the packet and calls the meeting to order at 7:15 or when the last person in line has voted.  The sign in and calculations are straight forward.  There is really nothing HRC goons can do unless there is no chair and everyone else is completely clueless and lets them cheat.  
Thanks a million bb1 (5.00 / 2)
HHC goons! I think not!
That's probably your mother, your aunt, your school teacher or the nurse who lives next door you are talking about!  Also, it includes women of color and men of color and many young people as well.

Goons! I don't think anyone from either camp deserves to be labeled goons.

Faith Chatham

[ Parent ]
charge up (2.00 / 1)
 your DV cams.  
Maybe this year will be worth recording (0.00 / 0)
However, if it is, it will be the first time that one wasn't ah hum uneventful. But if you want to lug a cam corder, go for it. I can see it now -- hundreds of boring pct convention videos on UTUBE. Talk about eatting up bandwidth.

Faith Chatham
[ Parent ]
precinct chair (3.14 / 7)
I am precinct chair here in San Angelo, and I am a Obama supporter, but that does not mean I am going to cheat to help Obama win... If there is more people for Hillary at my caucus then good for Hillary... I can just hope the there will be more for Obama...

Obama '08

Absolutely! (3.80 / 5)
I'm a Hillary supporter in a predominately African American precinct with lots of young voters. I am thrilled that more people have voted in this primary than ever before --- and we haven't even gotten to election day yet!

I know that "my candidate's supporters" will probably be outnumbered at the precinct convention. I am very determined that every Obama supporter will be treated with dignity, welcomed warmly, helped understand the process in any way I possibly can help him or her, and will be enlisted in Democratic activities in the precinct and county throughout the year (and hopefully for the rest of their lives). This year, regardless of who wins, there are groups of people who have been marginalized, discriminated against. Women and people of color have broken through barriers. Jesse Jackson was a serious contendor for the Presidential nomination. We've never had a woman who got this far toward being our party's nominee. This is not the first opportunity that African Americans have had to participate in the process and be delegates for an African American candidate. This is the first time that Democratic women will be able to be delegates for a strong, accomplished, vibrant woman candidate for President of the United States.

Whoever wins, we'll all have a candidate better than what we've faced for the last 8 years or anyone on the Republican ticket. Because so many of us identify with the candidates due to our personal histories and struggles, many will be disappointed in a very personal way when the votes are finally tallied. Yet each of us matters and this time we are being shown that what we think and hope and do matters.

Every human being who passes through the doors to vote and particpate in a precinct convention will be treated with respect and honored at my precinct. This is utmost on my heart. I am looking forward to meeting new people and greeting the faithful. There are several hundred people in my precinct who have never voted. Many of them have already voted early. There are several thousand who have never participted in a precinct convention. This year there will have to be more "teaching" as we conduct business. Everybody attends a precinct convention for the first time some time in his or her life. This time there will probably be more doing it for the first time together than is usual.

Contested primaries are good for the party. If there is no contest, folks stay home. We can't beat the Republicans if Democrats don't come vote.  If Hillary loses, I'll be front and center Wednesday morning with the Obama campaign working to get him elected in November. If Hillary wins, I hope that the Obama supporters will be front and center with us helping to get Hillary elected.

Faith Chatham

[ Parent ]
re:Absolutely (3.00 / 1)
"If Hillary loses, I'll be front and center Wednesday morning with the Obama campaign working to get him elected in November. If Hillary wins, I hope that the Obama supporters will be front and center with us helping to get Hillary elected."

Well... while this could all be over for Hillary on Wednesday morning, and you may indeed want to sign up with the Obama campaign shortly thereafter, if Hillary wins on Tuesday, she's still very unlikely to win the whole race... and the next two contests in Wyoming and Mississippi?! Those are easy, easy Obama victories.

The "fairy tale" in this election isn't Barack Obama's candidacy. It's the idea that the Democratic power structure is going to allow this race to go to the convention undecided, that somehow, magically, Hillary Clinton will get Florida and Michigan all voting for her, and that the superdelegates will sell out their states and give her the election.

That's a recipe for party self-destruction, which is why Howard Dean has said that he won't let it happen. The race will be decided soon. Basically, Hillary will either have to give up after Wyoming and Mississippi, if not after Tuesday, or face Howard Dean, Bill Richardson, Edwards, Gore, etc. stepping in and essentially either calling or swinging this contest to Obama, with a big gift of DNC-friendly superdelegates. Dean is also capable of using his control of the DNC pursestrings to flip many of Hillary's superdelegates, should she refuse to pull out of the race.

The good news for her, however, is that she will probably be fast tracked to be the first female Senate Majority Leader, if not brought on by Obama as the VP.  

Something miraculous will have to happen with her campaign for the party establishment to even let her bring her campaign as far as Pennsylvania, which she is currently leading by a relatively insignificant margin.

What it comes down to is that dragging things out another five weeks for Pennsylvania would cost the Democrats approximately $100M that could be spent on funding the general campaign, and getting Democrats elected across the entire country. It would also increase the bitterness and division within the party ranks, to the point that no matter which candidate won, they would be weakened in the general election.

So, while I understand that you like Hillary Clinton, I also think that you have to consider whether you're doing her, the party, Texas, and the issues that both she AND Obama largely agree upon much justice if you vote to stretch this battle out any longer. If Obama wins in Texas, he'll know which state won him the election, and will no doubt campaign hard to help get Democrats elected here. If not, well... maybe not.

Hillary is a qualified candidate, but Obama has proven himself quite capable, visibly growing more and more presidential throughout this process, with an effective campaign staff and a stronger fundraising and grassroots effort.

Voting for Hillary would've mattered a whole lot more if her campaign leaders hadn't screwed up so badly with fundraising in January, and hadn't practically ceded Obama the last 11 contests. The reason that Ms. Solis was fired was because she didn't tell Hillary that her campaign was insolvent until it was too late! That's as inexcusable as some of the lamebrained, delusional things that Mark Penn has said... things that helped to alienate red state Democrats across the entire country.

No offense, but I really don't want to see Mark Penn anywhere near the presidency. He's damaging to the Democrats, because he's so Roveian, he makes us look like a bunch of Republicants.

Thanks to Solis and Penn's "help", Hillary is in a position where all she can reasonably do is stretch things out and hope that something disasterous happens for Obama that would allow her to get 65%+ victories, like Obama was racking up in so many of the last several states... because that is what it's going to take at this point.

Hillary can't afford split decisions, and she can't afford any more losses. And yet, if you look at the other states ahead: Indiana, North Carolina, West Virginia, Kentucky, Montana, South Dakota... they're all polling about 10-25% for Obama already. This race is essentially over unless Hillary can start swinging states by 35% margins. (Not likely.)

See http://www.howeypolitics.com/2...

http://politicalwire.com/archi...


[ Parent ]
You ARE serious! (3.20 / 5)
So let me get this straight.

"If our supporters are outnumbered, ask the Temporary Chair if one of our supporters can serves as the Secretary, in the interest of fairness. The control of the sign-in sheets and the announcement of the delegates allotted to each candidate are the critical functions of the Chair and Secretary. This is why it is so important that Hillary supporters hold these positions"

So the Clinton campaign is asking that their supporters try and be the Secretary at the caucus.  And this is the signal that they are going to try and cheat and manipulate the end results?

The CHAIR has control over the records at the end, not the secretary.  The CHAIR is the one who has to take the results and submit them to the party, not the secretary. The secretary writes down the information, but it is the Chair who is responsible for the accuracy.

Come on people, lets try and maintain some perspective here.

Read about Nevada (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
<b>Perspective on the rules</b> (2.33 / 3)
So the Clinton campaign is asking that their supporters try and be the Secretary at the caucus.  And this is the signal that they are going to try and cheat and manipulate the end results?

You're missing a very important point.  Look at this line in the Clinton training materials:

"If our supporters are outnumbered, ask the Temporary Chair if one of our supporters can serves as the Secretary, in the interest of fairness."

This directly contradicts the rules for the precinct convention as outlined at the Texas Democratic Party website (see the various forms listed here: http://www.txdemocrats.org/ind... , most notably the ABCs of Conducting Your Precinct Convention and the Updated TDP Rules documents).  They say that the secretary is NOMINATED and ELECTED by everyone present, not assigned "in the interest of fairness."  

In other words, they're trying to change the rules and hoping that no one will be familiar enough with the system to know that they're being played.

Furthermore, the quote shown here omits a very important part (which is cited in the original source for the post here: http://trailblazers.beloblog.c... )

The materials say in part, "DO NOT allow the supporter of another candidate to serve in leadership roles."

That, combined with the explicit violation of the rules (i.e. not electing the Secretary) and the suspicious "if our supporters are outnumbered" clause, constitutes a very disturbing pattern that suggests intentional disruption and manipulation of the process.
[ Parent ]
Hillery never cease to amaze me (1.67 / 3)
The machiavellian tactics of this woman just leaves me chilled. I bet she even makes Karl Rove envious sometimes. The big thing with with HRC is that she just doesn't get it. America is absolutely sick of this kind politics, and thats the true phenomenon behind Obama. He's going to be the 21'st century Franklin Roosevelt. The Clinton way is passe, whether she knows or not; she's on the wrong side of history.
[ Parent ]
Clintons even worse than you think... (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
We'll see Wednesday. (3.00 / 2)
Some put hope in the unproven. Others of us respect Hillary for her track record, her warmth, her passion for the vulnerable and her determination to make this a better world in every way she can.


Faith Chatham
[ Parent ]
Obama supporters are so sick of it that they don't even (1.00 / 1)
acknowledge the use and employment of the same smear tactics and schemes that he and you supposedly despise.
[ Parent ]
GMS - You're wrong. (1.00 / 1)
That is taking things out of context.

If the temporary chair is an active supporter of candidate a, people supporting candidate b can SUGGEST that naming someone who supports their candidate as temporary secretary would be fair. The Temporary chair may or may not follow that suggestion. However, frequently folks in the room start nodding that it seems fair and it happens.

It is really not a big deal one way or the other however, because in a very few minutes the floor will be opened for nominations for permanent chair and permanent secretary. Then the people in the room get to elect the permanent chair.


Faith Chatham

[ Parent ]
Faith - No, YOU'RE wrong (0.00 / 0)
The quote in the original source does NOT say "temporary secretary" -- it says "secretary," and that is an ELECTED (not APPOINTED) position.  

If the original source is in error, or if the Clinton training materials accidentally used the wrong term, then THEY are wrong, not me.

So get your facts straight: Don't go adding words that change the meaning of a quote (e.g. "temporary secretary" instead of "secretary").  It's intellectually dishonest, and you know it.

Furthermore, I notice that you pointedly ignored the second part of the quote I provided: "DO NOT allow the supporter of another candidate to serve in leadership roles."

Any comment on that?  Is that, too, "in the interest of fairness"?

[ Parent ]
what you're omitting, whether intentionally or not (3.00 / 2)
is that the DO NOT, comment is in regards to the TEMPORARY chair.  As pointed out the PERMANENT Chair and PERMANENT Secretary are elected, there on site.

[ Parent ]
See my reply to Faith (1.00 / 1)
To reiterate what I said to Faith ...

Get your facts straight: Don't go adding words -- or replacing ENTIRE PHRASES -- that change the meaning of a quote (e.g. saying "temporary secretary" instead of the far broader category of "leadership roles").  It's intellectually dishonest, and you know it.

(Aside: Seriously, is this sort of distortion the standard to which you hold yourselves?  Karl Rove and Rush Limbaugh would be proud.)

[ Parent ]
The manual I have refers to Temporary chair and temporary secretary (2.00 / 2)
Whenever there is a reference to "getting the packet and convening the convention" that can only refer to temporary.  The packet is already open and the temporary secretary already has the minutes and the sign in sheet is already on the table before the permanent chair/secretary are elected.

My facts are straight Glen.  

Faith Chatham

[ Parent ]
First, I'm not Glen ... (0.00 / 0)
... G-M-S are my initials, and the "G" is short for "Gary."

Second, if you have a manual that makes it clear that the Dallas Morning News quotes are out of context, incomplete, or misleading, you have to SHARE THAT INFORMATION -- direct quotes -- before you can start calling other people "wrong" or say they're "taking things out of context."  It's simply not fair (or polite) to call someone wrong while withholding information that would obviously change their understanding of the situation.

All I have is the information quoted in the Dallas Morning News and the rules on the Texas Democratic Party website -- which, yes, I had been reading extensively a long time before I heard about this -- and, based on the information I have available, my conclusions and interpretations are 100% accurate and logically sound.

I would like nothing more than to find out that the quotes are horribly out-of-context!  Even though I support Obama, I have been the #1 cheerleader for Clinton to all of my Obama-supporting friends, trying to convince them that she's an outstanding leader who I would be proud to support if Obama wasn't in the contest.  I have tirelessly promoted Democratic Party unity and tried to keep everyone I know from losing perspective and seeing Clinton as an enemy of any kind.  

But this is the first time that I simply couldn't find a way to defend what I read.  I've looked everywhere, and I can't find a more complete quote of the primary source (i.e. whatever the Dallas Morning News was quoting), so this is all I have ... and, frankly, it's heartbreaking.

So, PLEASE, if you can provide a more complete quote that puts my mind at ease, I would really appreciate it.

[ Parent ]
Please don't come at 5PM (4.60 / 5)
As an election judge and precinct chair we will be doing our damnest to close the election and get the precinct conventions started as soon as we are allowed.  Having a bunch of people hanging around for two hours while we are trying to get this done will not help.
Exactly (5.00 / 1)
As an election clerk, I second this.
[ Parent ]
Ditto! Please don't come too early! (0.00 / 0)
Won't help you. You won't get in any earlier. You won't get to sign in any earlier. In fact, your presence there too early can slow things down. We cannot convene the precinct convention until the election is closed out. The election cannot be closed out until everyone who was in line at 7 p.m. has voted. We have to get them through the lines, close out the election and secure out ballots and equipment. We run fast but there are a lot of details which must be covered and things to check off. If lots of people are hanging around waiting for the convention before 7:15, and it makes things more chaotic at the end, that could delay the start of the precinct convention.

All voters from all precincts who vote at that voting site who are present at 7 p.m. must be allowed to complete voting before any precinct convention packets are distributed, anybody is allowed to sign in to pct convention, or any of the conventions of any precinct held at that voting site can be convened.

Faith Chatham

[ Parent ]
PLEASE DO COME EARLY!!!! (0.00 / 0)
Ok, I'll actually believe that even though you support Hillary you're totally objective.  I honestly DO believe that; I don't see anything untoward here.  However, Hillary, in her TV commercials, is asking everyone to show up at 6:45PM.  This goes along with what she did in Nevada, closing the doors 30 minutes early in some cases.  It wouldn't shock me in the LEAST if she closed the doors at some locations at 7PM.  Thus, I would STRONGLY encourage every Obama supporter to arrive at 6:30.

Also PLEASE DO BRING VIDEO CAMERAS.  The ONLY way to fight voter fraud is via irrefutable video evidence.  If anyone tries to tell you you cannot have it in the PUBLIC MEETING, they are incorrect and please do fight them on that (and I'm sure Obama's campaign has a voter hotline to report fraud).  The only people that don't want you to record the meetings are the people that are hiding something/planning something untoward.  Trust me, CNN/MSNBC/etc would LOVE LOVE LOVE to have access to tapes that show voter fraud (and a potential bonus, they'll pay you money for the exclusive! ;) ).

I also humbly ask every Obama supporter to PLEASE not engage in any of the techniques Hillary is being accused of engaging in.  Your behavior is Obama's behavior, and he has run an honest/good campaign focused on winning by motivating people, not by dirty tricks.  Please be beyond kind and supportive to Hillary's supporters... they are still GOOD Democrats like us.  

[ Parent ]
COME EARLIER!!! (1.00 / 1)

I suggest all Hillary supporters start camping out on Monday night in order to secure the best seats at the precinct caucus.  It's imperative that our video cameras get better recordings of the proceedings than the video cameras of Obama supporters.  You may even want to consider mounting your camera on a tripod and bringing in some extra lighting.  I think it would be prudent to hire professionals to shoot the caucuses so that footage would have high production values.


[ Parent ]
I've already dug a foxhole (3.00 / 5)
in the Mathews cafeteria.  Me and the other Clinthugs in my precinct are working our way through the al-Qaeda training videos, running through obstacle courses, learning how to blend in with members of the obamamafia.  We're also studying the layout of the three Obama HQs in Austin and are planning a late night raid of their soda refrigerators (duck marching takes a lot of energy!).  I now know how to say "yes we can" in 33 languages and can shed a tear at any hint of political inspiration, so I believe I'll be effective at infiltrating the enemy camp Tuesday night.  Hopefully, if all goes to plan, we'll destroy the hope and idealism of all the young people in the world and I'll then receive my honorary commission in the Clinton goon squad.
[ Parent ]
This is (0.00 / 0)
the funniest thing I've read on BOR in quite a while.  "yes we can" in 33 languages...

LOL

[ Parent ]
DVD (0.00 / 0)
We should release a "Best of Texas Caucuses" DVD, I'm sure it would be very entertaining.
[ Parent ]
Maybe we could excerpt the densest comments (0.00 / 0)
and funniest questions.

Faith Chatham
[ Parent ]
Please quit the fear mongering. (5.00 / 1)
The doors can not be closed BEFORE 7pm.  The ELECTION JUDGE will decide who is last to vote, and when caucusing can begin, no sooner...no later.

The pct. chair (if there is one) is considered the TEMP chair...

Oi!

[ Parent ]
Glenn's Predictions (2.33 / 3)

1.  Clinton 527 will swiftboat Obama with TV ads in Texas.
2.  Clinton will sue TDP.
3.  Clinton will attempt to steal votes in precinct caucuses.

The fact is we will wake up Wednesday morning and none of these things will have happened.


Other than Obama having won Texas? (5.00 / 1)
Or was that your #4. =P I kid. Not really.  

Please read the Community Guidelines and How to Rate Comments.
[ Parent ]
#4 (3.00 / 1)

I didn't include that because that's a prediction that may actually come true.
[ Parent ]
Calm down, guys (3.40 / 5)
The Obama materials also suggest trying to take over the position of secretary (as well as chair).  Not to cheat, but to get quick access to the data, and so be able to contact (Obama) delegates and encourage them to go to the county conventions.

The basic rules of hardball politics are: When you have the votes, use them to full advantage; when you don't, use a fairness argument to try to salvage something. That's all the Clinton team is doing.

Both campaigns are playing hardball, but the rest of us don't have to!! Precinct caucuses are a way to build the party, not to claw your neighbor's eyeballs out. No matter who is in the majority, I expect that my convention will let me be permanent chair, since I know what I'm doing and I am going to be fair. I'm also going to suggest to my precinct that they elect an assistant secretary as well as a secretary, and that the assistant be from the opposite camp of the main secretary. (You MUST elect a chair and a secretary, but you're allowed to elect as many additional officers as you like) That way there can be note-takers in both caucuses, and both sides will get equal access to the data.  

let's hear the outrage (3.00 / 1)
now that an Obama precinct captain has said they advocate doing the same thing.

Talk about fear-mongering ... fist the 527 stuff, now this. There is not an ounce of truth in any of it.

[ Parent ]
david (0.00 / 0)
I didn't report the 527 stuff. Clinton supporters and contributors did. That they were unable to raise the money for it is another matter.

[ Parent ]
glenn (4.00 / 2)
Not quite.

You said they were going to run in Texas. No one had reported (incorrectly, it turned out) definitively that they would run in TX and no one had reported that they would be swift boat style attacks. The article you linked to said they would run in Ohio and Texas only if they had extra money.

You also said they would be swift boat style attacks. I posted the video and it was clear to everyone -- including you -- that it was not a swift boat attack.

[ Parent ]
David (0.00 / 0)
Are you related to Gary Mauro?
[ Parent ]
Yes (0.00 / 0)
and its Garry :)
[ Parent ]
It's not exactly the same (2.00 / 1)
Both sides want to have control, but Clinton takes it farther than Obama. The Obama materials just say something like "let's try to get our people elected chair and secretary". The Clinton people say the same, and add "if we're outnumbered, try the fairness argument". Using fairness unfairly (only when they're behind) isn't a capital offense, and it's certainly not election-stealing, but it's still sneaky and underhanded.

By the way, I'm not an Obama precinct captain. I'm a Democratic precinct chair who supports Obama.  

[ Parent ]
Absolutely. It is about building the party (0.00 / 0)
We need all of us.  

Faith Chatham
[ Parent ]
Undecideds (0.00 / 0)
What happens to undecideds who show up?
Is someone isn't committed, they sign in "uncommitted" (3.00 / 1)
If they meet the threshold for electing a delegate, they will be assigned one (number of delegates to be elected divided into the number in attendancd).

If they don't meet the threshold, they can join Obama or Clinton groups and the delegates get recalculated.

If they remain uncommitted and don't join, then they get to just sit back and watch everyone else have fun.

The can remain and debate the resolutions.

[ Parent ]
I was told (2.00 / 2)
to make them stand on a box with electrodes hooked to their fingers, and a hood on, until they begged to support Hillary Clinton.

LOL

[ Parent ]
These are your fellow Democrats, Your Neighbors (3.33 / 6)
STOP AND THINK. Don't Hurt America. Don't Shame Texas.

The caucus participants are your fellow Democrats, Your Neighbors, and Your Friends. Respect these Democrats who care SO MUCH to be there for the future of this nation, as you would want to be respected.

You will want to work together the rest of the year to BEAT the GOP. We can do it, we are organized, we are energized. We can elect a democratic senator. We can take back our Texas state house.

But we must work together. We must be able to find our common cause, our unity, after this primary is over.

So - No Shenanigans. Lead by example, with the most free and fair democratic process possible; Be a beacon for the rest of the world.

(And if this is poorly written, sorry!, I have a 103 degree fever at the moment.)

Democratic Candidate for State Representative, District 99

Fear monger much? (4.00 / 4)
It makes me sick to read this diary and then all these comments just adds to it.

Yes the campaigns want to hold the leadership positions in the precincts, it does create an advantage (more in the heads of the caucus goers than anything, like momentum in a campaign). But you've just made the leap (like many others here) that wanting to secure that momentum is cheating, stealing, and lying. That's dangerous and dishonest in and of itself.

Right now you have no real evidence to support your claims and the evidence you do have is the same for both campaigns, but you only accuse one. Granted their are people out there that are dishonest and may try to change tallies, and everyone should be aware and knowledgeable of the process to ensure its integrity, but the campaigns aren't encouraging that.

I won't stand with David M. on much about this election (maybe more than I think) but this is a fear mongering post at it best. Let's see some sense of equality here on BOR. I know that BOR endorsed Obama, but we in the community have sunk to some new lows, we forgot to build the party and started tearing down the "other half."

I'll restate ... (3.67 / 3)
It makes me sick to read this diary and then all these comments just adds to it.
...but we in the community have sunk to some new lows, we forgot to build the party and started tearing down the "other half."

I just reread a lot of the comments, most of them are Glen's comments. The BOR community has not sunk to new lows, only parts of the community have.
[ Parent ]
The Clintons are out of here after Tuesday and don't care about leaving scorched earth (1.67 / 6)
Hillary has already said Texas won't be in play in November so don't expect to see her back unless its to collect money for the general if she is the nominee. It's all about them. They don't give a damn about Dems in red states. To the Clintons there is only one set of rules.....CLINTON RULES.


Tess! That is absolutely not true! (5.00 / 1)
Shame on you.  

Faith Chatham
[ Parent ]
The truth hurts (1.00 / 1)
Which part isn't true or can't we believe Hillary's own words and Nevada speaks to the second. Texas was nothing but a piggybank for the Clintons in the 1990s. They don't give a damn about the 50 state strategy Howard Dean has built. It only took one election for Bill to lose the Congress and we lost untold Democratic elected officials in Texas and across the country. You Clintonistas are big on the SHAME word because you have none.
[ Parent ]
only three comments (0.00 / 0)
and you are sure making your mark on the BOR community
[ Parent ]
Hold up the Camera -- the Mirror (1.00 / 1)
Well, I'm bringing my DV camera.  

We need cameras at as many precinct caucus locations as possible.  

Remember, the only way to handle a Medusa is with a Mirror.

I wish I'd had mine with me in Buda last Friday -- there was  a Hillary lawn sign right there in the front yard of the city hall polling location.  I asked one of the pollworkers if that wasn't illegal electioneering, and he told me that it was 150 ft from the door they were polling from -- around the side of the building.  

After the line moved up another 30 ft or so, I looked back and saw the same pollworker telling an African American woman that she could not put an Obama sign right next to it, and sending her across the street.  


Leave the video cameras at home (5.00 / 1)
Yes, you have a legal right to film the caucus, as it's an open meeting. But please don't. I don't want a camera in my face when I'm talking politics with my neighbors, and neither do they.  
[ Parent ]
If something really untoward happens.... (2.00 / 2)

Reports of the shenanigans  will be "he said she said" without the footage.

It is a public meeting. Bring your Cameras.  

We don't want a repeat of the kinds of shenanigans observed in Nevada.

I have two different approaches to public meetings, by the way, Lorenzo.  Nobody has ever objected to my filming them speak.

One approach is to set up the camera with a wide-angle lens in the back, and use one long take so that it can by synchronized more easily with any digital audio streams that may be captured independently.  

The other approach is to start rolling if/when something untoward takes place, like the selective enforcement of electioneering I observed on Friday in Buda.

Neither of these approaches involve getting in your personal face, Lorenzo.  

[ Parent ]
It's all in how you do it (0.00 / 0)
You're right that filming can be done courteously and discretely, and I've got no problem with that. It can also be done in a way that's confrontational and intimidating. I'm much more scared of intimidation than of cheating.

This isn't Nevada, where the caucuses were large events held in places like casinos. The Texas caucuses are neighborhood events. I trust my neighbors to play fair, and I hope they trust me, too.  

[ Parent ]
Nevada (0.00 / 0)
Press coverage gave a very skewed picture of the Nevada caucuses.

The "at large" caucuses held on the strip went pretty well, with few incidents.

Most Nevadans caucused at their local junior high or elementary school just like in every other state that has caucuses.  Locations like that happened to be where the media wasn't, and where most of the problems happened.

Now, Nevadas rules are insane to begin with, poll workers being allowed to wear candidates t-shirts while working the registration table?  

I'm not going to go into the whole litany of the rule violations I observed and reported, but at the end of the day there were just far too many people with far to fuzzy an idea of the rules, and no one was prepared for the situation by past experience.

[ Parent ]
This is absurd. n/t (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
We heard the same thing about Obamanites! (5.00 / 1)
I hope the Obamanites try to take the chair position for our senate district convention. Because they will get it, and then regret it.

It isn't like running a cake bake fundraisiing meeting. This is very serious stuff. There will be professional disrupters in the audience who know roberts rules of order inside and out and will cause you to think twice about wanting to run the convention. This is unfortunate, but it happens. They have an axe to grind, and if they don't grind it, they consider themselves worthless.

The purpose of the chair is to run the convention in accordance with the rules of the TDP. you had better know the rules before attempting to be a ruler.

That is all they are suppose to do. Follow the rules Obamacans and everything will be fine.

By the way, this is a fear mongering post. (3.00 / 1)
Do us a favor and quit it. Or grow up. Either one would be beneficial to the party.
Have all of you been to a precinct caucus before? (3.00 / 2)

The idea that Hillary or Obama supporters that are neighbors are suddenly going to be out to get each other is ridiculous.

I know pretty much all the active Democrats in my precinct (342 in Travis County) and although we have our differences on this race, we're neighbors and friends before we're political activists.

I look forward to a sedate non-event occurring on Tuesday night as we all gather, socialize, and then divvy up the delegates to the Travis County Democratic Convention.

I think in my neighborhood people would be too embarrassed to cause a big rules ruckus in front of their friends.

This diary is much a do about nothing (3.00 / 1)
It is reasonable for a campaign to request representation among those presiding. As an Election Judge, I will not surrender the packet for my precinct but I am looking for someone who understands Roberts Rule of Order to convene the other precinct. I see nothing foul in a campaign encouraging their supporters to try to get to be secretary or permanent chair of the precinct convention. It is the responsiblity, however, of the Election Judge and Precinct Chair to ensure that all Party Rules and State Election Laws are followed, and everyone is treated fairly, no matter what candidate we personally support.

This diary seems to be attempting to create hysteria in inexperienced participants about something that is not really anything new. Both camps are telling their folks to get positioned with as much authority as possible.


Faith Chatham

Not hysteria, alertness (2.00 / 2)
I want participants to be alert, not hysterical.

Nevada participants were surprised when they arrived to find bean-balls being thrown at their head by some of the Clinton organizers.

That's all. Be alert. Also, it was not just my opinion, but those of the Dallas News, Politico, DailyKos and others who became suspicious when Clinton instructed supporters to grab leadership roles when they are outnumbered.

Both sides are counting on people such as yourself to run orderly, productive precinct conventions. Thanks for what you are doing.

And one other thing by way of explanation. Clinton finds herself in a tight spot, strategically. Because she will likely lose the delegate fight here, no matter the popular vote outcome, her campaign needs to muddy up reporting of the delegate contests. That means there is a strategic reason for them to disrupt caucuses, and, in hardball politics, when there's motivation and likely very few consequences, then we are right to be alert to the possibilities.

[ Parent ]
Get Real Glen. Since when has the Dallas Morning News ever (2.33 / 3)
accurately covered anything Democratic. They usually endorse the candidate they think won't win because they want the Republicans to come out ahead. They usually demean Democrats and pump up the neocos. When the reporters decide that a Democrat is really good, they frequently get overruled by the "front office".  So, why take this one to the bank?  I suspect it is because you WANT TO BELIEVE the worst.

Everyone has to be alert. Precinct conventions are comprised of human beings. It a very DECENTRALIZED event and there will be aggressive Obama folks in some of them and there will be some aggressive Clinton supporters in some of them. The aggression is probably not fueled by the candidates but probably comes from within the person.

We always need to be alert to see that things are conducted fair and in order. We don't need to go in loaded for bear waiting for a hostile take over. That only creates hostility and pollutes what probably would be an orderly fair proceeding.

Go Tuesday night prepared to have a good time, to meet your neighbors, to see folks you know and meet new ones. Go knowing that Democrats aren't in the minority this year. Go knowing that we have two decent candidates and that either one of them will do a millions time better job than today's inhabitant of the oval office.  Go looking for folks who support "the other candidate" who will partner with you once the vote is tallied in reclaiming our nation from the peril which has befallen it these past 8 years.

Go knowing that we may vote differently Tuesday night but we all want the same thing. Go being determined to embrace whichever candidate wins with all your heart and soul and determination.

If we can go to our precinct conventions Tuesday night with joyous expectation, we'll all come out winners.

Yes, I care a lot about "my candidate" winning. I care even more about all of us winning in November.  

Faith Chatham

[ Parent ]
I hope there are many like you, Faith (3.00 / 2)
I hope everyone goes with "joyous expectations" too, and I hope supporters of all candidates are treated with respect and dignity.

This, apparently, did not happen in Nevada. So some alertness to potential problems and abuses is only prudent.

Also, since Obama has enjoyed organizational advantages in caucus setting, and since the popular-vote selected delegates will probably break even, Clinton will probably fall further behind in delegates here. That means Clinton needs a strategy to overcome that fact, and a bit of muddying at the caucuses might well be a hardball tactic to pursue that strategy.

The national campaign -- I understand Clinton's Texas supporters like Garry Mauro are rather loudly opposed to it -- continued to raise the specter of a legal challenge to caucus delegate reporting. That's the kind of tactic Clinton might need to employ if she wants the focus on the popular vote (should she win it) and not on Obama's gain in national delegates.

But, I am with you on the need for respect and rule-abiding at the caucuses, I expect there are many more like you than there are rule-benders, and I am happy to hear your responsible and democracy-enabling principles stated here.

Thank you.

[ Parent ]
Just like everything you've... (3.00 / 4)
posted about Clinton, this is a tempest in a damn teapot.

Come on, Glenn. This is just foolish.

Well, I have company (3.00 / 1)
Given what happened in Nevada, given the strategic need for Clinton to suppress reporting of her likely delegate loss in Texas, it remains a possibility that caucus disruptions will become a tactic to further that strategy.

Throwing a few brush-back pitches in advance seems only prudent. So that's what I'm doing.

McBlogger, I do have this question for you. Because all of us know that the netroots movement has from its birth opposed the political practices of the Clinton machine -- top down, 50-percent-plus-1 strategy that left many (especially us in Texas) with no resources and no national allies, a corporatist, triangulating strategy -- how are overlooking that legacy to support Clinton now?

This isn't a push question, because I expect to change no minds with it. I am sincerely curious about it.

[ Parent ]
Nevada (1.00 / 1)

Don't forget the largest number of complaints during the Nevada primaries were logged against the Culinary Workers Union who told workers they would be fired unless they caucused for Obama and refused to transport members of their own union to their caucus site unless they pledged to caucus for Obama.
[ Parent ]
Nevada (0.00 / 0)
Jobu, would you like to provide sources for that claim?

A blogger claimed that a Culinary Worker told her that she had been threatened....and then failed to produce any verification of the claim.

Or, to you mean what President Clinton "overhead"...wait, was it Chelsea that overheard it and told her dad but refused to confirm it for the media or the State Party when asked?  Bill had two versions of the story in a 60 second soundbite.

The overwhelming majority of complaints were about attempts to close the doors up to an hour and half early, registration tables covered in candidates signs, pre-marked voter preference cards, lack of registration forms, and missing registration lists.  I know.  I read most of them.

Not one official complaint was ever filed with the State Party or with the Culinary Workers concering intimidation of Union members.  Not one.

Produce a credible link if you think there is one.

Again, folks the circus on the Strip was only a small fraction of total caucuses, even though it's all the media covered.  There is a lot more to Nevada than just the people who happened to be working within a mile of the Strip that Saturday.

[ Parent ]
The Last Blow Up I Attended in Travis County was (3.00 / 2)
In 1988, the political trench warfare at the precinct and county conventions between Jackson and Mondale supporters was every bit as intense as the coming political trench warfare for addition delegates between Obama and Clinton.

The old political hacks have an advantage in this situation because of their interconnected relationships and knowledge of party rules. The Democrats will host a bunch of newcomers like we did in 1988, the old political machine pols need to see that these new participants are treated fairly regardless of whether they are supporting Obama or Clinton.  

Wow (0.00 / 0)

I didn't know Mondale and Jackson were fighting it out in 1988.  
[ Parent ]
Oop's (3.00 / 1)
It was 1984. Sorry I am old and forget full. The McGovern in 1972 we fun too.
[ Parent ]
I thought it was Mondale and Hart (0.00 / 0)
according to my Mom who was a precinct captain for Hart and was pushed to change to Mondale.
[ Parent ]
I was actually looking forward (2.00 / 1)
to caucusing for Obama in the friendly environment of my neighborhood.  Until now I had no clue that disruptive Rovian minion types might be present at a Democratic caucus among neighbors and friends, but oh well.  This is Texas where politics can be a literal fight to the death.  

But this fight-to-the-death ethos is supposed to be according to Republican ideology.  

I thought I would attend a Democratic caucus in my neighborhood for Democrats with no Republicans present.

Thanks for the heads up.

I will suit up in armor fully locked and loaded to participate in a barroom brawl.

I am not happy.    

This is the problem with posts like this (3.50 / 2)
It causes people to think that the caucus will be a "barroom brawl" when there are really no facts to back this up.
[ Parent ]
Nevada (0.00 / 0)
and threatening the the caucus procedures.
[ Parent ]
Somewhere in Texas (3.00 / 2)
a bunch of Texas Republicans are sitting in a room reading these comments out loud, and laughing their heads off.  

To those men (because you know it's a group of white old men) I say:  rest assured that commenters like Glenn are the minority. As a precinct chair who already voted early for Hillary Clinton, I welcome ALL attendees to our precinct convention, and will thank each one personally for taking the time to come. I've printed out and learned reams of rules and guidelines for running a Precinct Convention, and I will insist that they be followed as precisely as possible. Video cameras and audio recordings are welcome. I look forward to awarding the correct number of delegates to each candidate. Any procedures that go on in my precinct, and/or have my name affiliated with it, will be conducted in a legal, rule-abiding, fair way. May the best man or woman win, as long as he/she is a DEMOCRAT!    GO DEMS, TAKE TEXAS BACK!  

Amen, again! (2.00 / 1)
Those Republicans who are reading this are probably wondering why we didn't spend the day handing out campaign literature for our candidates.  I have just a few comments before I go to bed.

Please don't arrive at 5:00.  I haven't been an election judge in many years, but I wouldn't let you stay in the polling area.  That area is for people who are voting.  You will just be in the way (and you don't have a right to be there).  Democrats don't lock the doors at 7:00.  If you've heard something about this, it probably happened in 1968.  If you're there at 7:00 you'll be fine.  PLEASE spend this time with your family, your significant other or your cat.  They will appreciate your presence.  Come back a little before 7:00, take a seat while the last voters finish and get ready to be part of the most historic election in your lifetime.

Please remember what has been stated here earlier by several people.  The people at your precinct convention are your family members, neighbors and friends.  We all need to treat them in the same manner in which we would want to be treated.  Welcome those people who are new to this process, even if they support the opposing candidate.  Welcome the young.  You want them to keep coming back.

Video cameras?  Bring them if you want, but you're probably not going to get that "smoking gun" footage.  There probably won't be any.  

Know the rules.  It will make things go smoother.

Have fun, and know that you are making a difference.

[ Parent ]
Also (3.00 / 1)
I plan to keep the doors open and let people come into the convention when they get there--even if it's 7:20 or 7:30. This may be a once in a lifetime opportunity for Democrats in Texas to participate directly in a meaningful precinct convention, and I want to welcome Everyone who makes an effort to get there to participate. I even looked up the rule on this, and the rule is caucus attendees can arrive late--they just can't demand that things that have already been accomplished at the convention be re-done. I don't want to make a long day even longer, but on the other hand, as precinct chairman, I want to draw in as many potential new Dems as possible and get them on "our side."  It'll take a little time to nominate the Permanent Chair and Secretery, so in the meantime--come on in, Dems, better late than never!
[ Parent ]
Forgive us, Judith (3.00 / 2)
Us Obama supporters just got a little antsy when saw what looked like a Clinton memo to usurp the caucus control.  I hope all the precinct chairs are as collected in their laurels as you.  That will make this process run smoothly and fairly.
[ Parent ]
I haven't seen that memo (0.00 / 0)
Where is it?
[ Parent ]
The memo... (1.00 / 2)

Glenn has it along with McCarthy's list of 205 communists working in the State Department and the 18 1/2 minutes of the missing Watergate tapes.
[ Parent ]
Election Judge/ Pct Chair- too many hats! (4.33 / 3)
What I'm reading on this board is just nuts. As a weary election judge/pct chair at an incredibly busy pct in Houston, I know we are all going to be struggling to get it all done at all-- much less plot and plan. I've contacted supporters of my candidate and encouraged them to participate in the convention. But come November, we are all going to have to pull together and graciously and enthusiastically support all democratic candidates. The President isn't the only race on the ballot-- we all seem to be forgetting that. A President can only do so much. We need change in Harris county and throughout Texas and democratic voters can't just breeze into the general election, vote for President and leave the booth. Taking the primary convention too seriously and the distrust I see exhibited on this Board need to be stopped now. By everyone. Or-- guess what-- come November-- we loose. And its not just Dems that loose-- its the country and the state that loose. So dial back the rhetoric and keep your eye on the ball.  
Absolutely Agree with You (3.00 / 2)
I just started reading this diary about 30 minutes ago, and like you said, "it's just nuts" in here.

[ Parent ]
True. So true. n/t (3.00 / 2)


Faith Chatham
[ Parent ]
You might think you've been through this before... (5.00 / 1)
A lot of people in Nevada thought they had been through caucuses before.  Many where shocked by what they experienced.

At the caucus I attended in Henderson County, things came within an inch of a physical violence.  This was a normal, middle class, neighborhood full of single family homes.

Confused about caucus math, and irate that Clinton and Obama split delegates evenly despite Clinton having more votes, several Clinton supporters verbally assualted the Chair...who was a Clinton supporter.

Now, I support Senator Obama, but I am more than willing to credit the majority of Clinton supporters who were entirely civil and pleasant, and I want to point out that the Clinton supporting Chair was absolutely fair and stand-up in her duties.

She was a 5'2" woman in her early twenties, and wound up with a 6'5" 300 lb 60 year old man pushing her with his gut and screaming into her face.  I stepped in and pointed out to him that he might be big, but he was also old and fat, and that I am certainly neither.  That seemed to snap him out of it.

The entire poll-worker pool was for Clinton, and some of them did their job well and fairly, while others gave voters different information regarding registration depending on the voters race and/or age.  We had to position several observers to stop this.

I do not hold Senator Clinton personally responsible for what happened in Nevada, or for this Memo, but it's important to understand that this year, many voters feel cheated personally, and feel that Senator Clinton has somehow been cheated by the process.  Some of these people have serious issues, and are likely to cause problems.

In addition, many long-time local party "activists" are feeling threatened by the surge in voters and participants in the process, and feel that their "rightfull" position is being threatened. "I've been the chair every year for blah blah".

In Nevada, there was a coordinated effort to close the caucus doors early and exlude voters.  Despite repeated confirmation of actual start times with the State Party, some Clinton supporters continued to point at Clinton campaign materials and....well, yes, scream.

No matter who you support, please, do not walk into that Caucus tomorrow night looking for a fight.  Be prepared to defuse tension, and if you don't like what someone on your side is doing, step up and police your own!  Keep an eye on the math, be active, be honest, and do your part to make sure the process is fair and transparent.

I'm not a Texan, but I am a long haul truck driver who has burned a lot of miles on Texas highways over the years.  I know first hand that Texas is far from as "Red" as a lot of people would like to paint it, but bad feelings and hostility will not turn it "Blue" for either candidate.

This is not "just another caucus".  It's going to take a lot of people dedicated to fairness and unity to keep things under control and ensure a fair and enjoyable process.

Ditch the paranoia, but do not be complacent, and enjoy picking our next President tomorrow ;)


Thanks! (3.00 / 1)
Great comment from somebody with actual perspective...

[ Parent ]
OMG Did you See THIS (1.00 / 1)
I saw Clinton staffers handing out T-shirts that said "Hillary's Texas Raucus Caucus".

This can only mean one thing--- the Clinton goon squad plans to cause riots at the caucuses! They are suppressing the vote!

My fellow Obamaniacs, don't let this happen!

Attica Attica Attica

-
Posted by a fear mongering non sequitur Glenn wannabe

120 comments! (1.00 / 1)
What happened? Did Kinky Friedman declare for President?

Now, a very great man once said that some people rob you with a fountain pen.
Convention Chair Instructions (0.00 / 0)
I have to say that Glenn's post, along with the Convention Chair instructions that were emailed today from the Travis County Democrats, detailing how it's "okay" to xerox sign in sheets if you run out of triplicate forms, along with the reminder that Chairs have three days to turn in their sheets, leads me to believe the window of opportunity for malfeasance is WIDE open.

I'd love for someone to show me where I'm wrong, I really do!

Shame on you Glenn Smith (0.00 / 0)
You start your post by stating that "The Dallas Morning News is reporting...........".

The "Dallas Morning News" link that you show in the very first line of your post lead to something called the "trailblazer's blog"

http://trailblazers.beloblog.c...

Shame on you for trying to pass off a blog entry & your biased opinion as news.  Isn't it bad enough that we get this kind of sorry reporting 24/7 from Fox, MSNBC & CNN.

I'm glad to see that a few people who know the truth about this matter attempted to set you straight.   How disgusting that we are inundated with lies & twisted half truths for a year or more before we get a chance to vote.  Small wonder that we had a dimwit like Bush shoved down our throat.

What's the big deal? (0.00 / 0)
It says "Dallas Morning News" at the top of the page that the link takes me to. Granted, it's a DMN blog, rather than the print edition; but I don't think Glenn was stretching too far on that point at all. And I don't think Glenn is being dishonest by leaving out the word "blog" between "News" and "is" in his first sentence that you quote. Someone employed by the Dallas Morning News reported that info on a blog maintained by the Dallas Morning News.
[ Parent ]
Also... (0.00 / 0)
It's not like Glenn Smith is some tinfoil-hat whack job posting his conspiracy theories. Assuming this is the same Glenn Smith I'm thinking of...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...

[ Parent ]
Clinton Caucus Disruption/Vote Suppression | 140 comments
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