Burnt Orange Report

Its understandable, I suppose, that you would refuse to support Raymond as long as Ciro is in the race. In the event of a Raymond v Cuellar primary though, I hope you realize who the better choice is.

I'd recognize it, when or if it happens. But even then, I cannot in good consciense do anything other than recognize it. There are few actions citizens can wield when stuck with decisions such as that, other than to withold any action or support.

Burnt Orange Report wind-up doll lemmings are ready to dive off the cliff again - and it's only been 2 days!

Can we ban Robert Morrow? I'm all for hearing opposition, and I understand free speech, but his comments are unacceptable.

Nice post, KT. The Ds need to be called out.

armbrister is a DINO, pure and simple.

I moved away from Austin a couple of years ago, and if I'd found out about Burnt Orange Report in say my junior year in 2003, I'd a been one of you guys blogging.

Anyway, I still check in here once or twice a month.

I had never realized that the vote in the House to get that amendment on the ballot was that close. And I certainly never realized that PATRICK ROSE sold me and other gay Texans (and really, all Texans) out. That hurts. I remember him winning that seat and being proud of him, however distantly and vaguely. And I've been aware of the Cuellar-Rodriguez-Raymond thing too, and rooting for Raymond.

Those bastards.

Anyone happen to know where I can read the story of WHY so many Democrats, including men like Patrick Rose, voted for this? And how the hell could he campaign for NoNonsenseinNovember when he had already knifed us in the back?

I'll have to go search the archives of Texas Monthly or the Austin Chronicle someday to see if I can learn how on earth 17 Democrats could have defected on this, a constitutional amendment.

Those bastards.

Pete Laney? Doesn't he know what party politics is?

Were they just trying to keep it off the 2006 ballot? Wouldn't they have been able to hold the line then too?

Links appreciated. Thanks for blogging, guys.

This bit of history was hard to learn.

This is one of the many many reasons that Boris Miles' campaign for district 146 (my home district) will be near the top of my list of campaigns that are most important to me. I don't want a man representing me that is going to vote to make something doubly illegal: especially when its an issue of churches, not of legislatures.

Please don't forget that Raymond voted for the repulsive Talton amendment as well. He was to the right of Ray Allen, John Davis, and Jane Nelson but remains unapologetic. He has always been an opportunist and I see no difference between him and Cuellar.

"Can we ban Robert Morrow? I'm all for hearing opposition, ..."

Apparently not.

"...and I understand free speech, ..."

Apparently not.

"...but his comments are unacceptable."

Definately not! You aren't intelligent enough to understand the concept of free speech.

K.T. -

What is the threshold to reach to join the "had to" vote for the Amendment? Do you have idea why Hays voted the way it did? Two reasons: 1) The work former Rose interns did in turning out the TX State students. 2) The infrastructure the Rose campaign built in the county. Besides Travis, Hays was probably the only county that had a coordinated effort to turn out voters. Maxey didn't have the resources to do what happened in Hays and Travis across the state.

Everyone raps on Rose b/c they were so proud of his race in 2002. It was a shitty year, and he was one of the few bright spots. He said what he needed to win in a district that voted for this damn thing by over 15 points. It probably should have been closer to 65-35 there but for the work the Rose kids have done in turning the county bluer.

Right now - of all times - is not the time to turn on each other. I was hoping Tuesday would prove to all of these Ds that voted for the Amendment that their distrcit and/or this state was close enough on Amendment 2 to make them stand up to these bigots, but 75-25 proves how naive I was on this.

It's simple. Rose votes in favor of gay marriage - he loses. If Rose had voted against this amendment and it had failed by one, his next campaign would have been about one issue. It's easy to sit in our ivory tower of Travis County and preach about our liberal politics, but some of these other districts are nothing like any of us have ever known.

75-25 across the state. Now, you want to "cleanse" our party?

Did I say I wanted him out? I just said I was disappointed and won't donate again. Methinks my $25 donation isn't going to make much of a difference, but if Rose and his staff is going to work on the ground to defeat the amendment, then how about simply talking a walk during that vote like half a dozen other reps did.

Here's Kinky's take:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3453761

I like his take. And they do have as much right as everyone else to be miserable. And what was Chris Bell's position? He didn't think Texans were ready for gay marriage. Meaning he wanted to pander to those Democrats he knew would vote for Proposition 2. Although quite a few of them know he supports Human Rights Campaign. Which supports gay marriage. So as always, it was a mixed message. So as far as I'm concerned, he's to be added to this list of people who could have publicly opposed Proposition 2 and instead said by silently. Cowering in the corner. Worried more about their political futures than any principles they claim to have. And those who sat by silently should all be put on the list. And true Democrats should work towards defeating them all at the polls and putting real Democrats in office. People who know what "equal rights" is all about.

Now Kinky probably knew a lot of people would vote for Proposition 2. He could have pandered to them. But did he? No. Instead he said what he felt. No apologies. No pandering. Walks his talk.

Kinky still has my vote. And from the way the polls are going, he is garnering quite a few people's votes. This is yet another reason why. Even after it overwhelmingly passed, he still opposed it. Loud and clear. Like a real bell. For all to hear.

"Its understandable, I suppose, that you would refuse to support Raymond as long as Ciro is in the race. In the event of a Raymond v Cuellar primary though, I hope you realize who the better choice is."

A Raymond-Cuellar primary (or runoff) is not a foregone conclusion, as much as some would like to spin it that way. Despite being outspent by Raymond, Rodriguez is making up lost ground in Bexar County and elsewhere. True Democrats (like Karl-Thomas) do have a choice in this primary and should stand up for what they believe in. As a gay man, a progressive, and a Laredoan, I'll be casting my vote for Ciro D. Rodriguez. The choice is easy.

"I hope you realize who the better choice is."

Better choice or lesser of two evils? More and more of our races are becoming "lesser of two evils" which is probably the main reason why there is so much voter apathy.

It may also explain why we have so few really decent and committed politicians. Both parties have corrupted themselves. From within.

Very few politicians today are really committed to "the people's business" and instead are only interested in business. Big business. Big bucks.

When you know it is probably going to be "lesser of two evils" why vote at all?

Reality of what this country has become politically is that the people who are affected the most vote the least. They are disconnected and disenfranchised. By design. Often by the "lesser of two evils." The lesser is often the greater. He or she was just packaged well.

Check out this analysis of the upcoming primary in the Texas 28th - http://www.pinedaconsulting.com/index.php/2005/11/07/raymond-is-overrated/

Raymond is overrated, but if we want Ciro to win, we've got to work on getting out the Bexar County vote in the runoff. Cuellar's dead neighbors and his Webb county friends who vote early & often shouldn't be a problem this time. GOTV for Ciro and we'll take this seat back from the Republicans.

Do we want Ciro to win?

I say go after the Democrats who are in reliably safe Democratic seats. Ignore Rose, Hopson, Frost and others who frankly have no choice but to vote in favor of the amendment. We need their votes on other important issues in the House.

However, people like Al Edwards of Houston need to go. This vote wouldn't have threatened his incumbancy at all. Defeat those who represent predominantly minority, reliably safe Democratic seats and elect those who really stand for civil rights. Alma Allen is a great example of how we can rectify this problem.

Only if you want a real Democrat to win and not someone who votes like a Republican.

I am a liberal. I think gays should be able to get married, adopt kids, and have whatever other rights hetero's have. (I also think the we should have a state income tax and that every kid should be able to afford to go to college.) I don't think those are "liberal" ideas, I think they're common sense.

Unfortunately, over 75% of Texans disagree. I don't know the details of Rose's district or of the Cuellar/Ciro/Raymond district, but I think it's obvious that we have a major message crisis that can't be blamed on the few D's that voted for this. These D's are with us on most issues, any R will be against us on all of them. I know that's not perfect, but at 25% we are no position to push these guys out of our tent.

We should be looking to them to see how we can get D's elected in other Republican seats across the state.

I would be hard pressed to find any D's outside of Travis County that would support a state income tax. I still support them and know they are important to the party. Same goes for these guys.

One D outside of Travis County would be Sen. Shapliegh in El Paso. But I get your point Leslie O.

"Please don't forget that Raymond voted for the repulsive Talton amendment as well. He was to the right of Ray Allen, John Davis, and Jane Nelson but remains unapologetic. He has always been an opportunist and I see no difference between him and Cuellar."

You see no difference between Cuellar and Raymond??? Raymond is against social security privatization, against private school vouchers, is pro choice, he was one of the leaders of the Ardmore 51 ... you may disagree with some of his votes this past session (as I do), but please recognize clear differences. Speaking of opportunists ... that would be Henry Cuellar. You can't be Rick Perry's SoS, run for congress in CD23 in 02 and than betray your old friend Ciro and run in CD28 in 04 w/o being an opportunist. Plus, look what he has done since he's got to Washington ... nothing. Its time for Cuellar to go.

Raymond voted to take children away from the parents who care for them. Can you imagine the news reports on TV of crying children being taken from the arms of their parents by state workers if this had passed? He voted to reduce the homes available for the thousands of children in this state who need one. This was the worst vote either chamber has taken in years. Still, if he admits it was a bad vote made in haste (and plenty of Republicans have given him cover to do so) then sure, I could forgive him. But he hasn't done that. He has shown, as usual, that his political ambitions come first, although in this case I think he's miscalculated. And Democrats would have to expect the exact same thing if he goes to Washington. Just like Cuellar.