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Galindo Plan Not So Green


by: billbunch

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:53 AM CDT


(BOR has endorsed Robin Cravey, but this is an interesting discussion.   - promoted by Burnt Orange Report)

As Cid Galindo tries to sell himself to Austin voters as an environmentalist with a plan, it's important to take a closer look at what he offers before heading to the ballot box.  If you study what Cid calls "the Galindo Plan," and look at what he has actually said and done, it's pretty clear that he is yet another developer-backed candidate masquerading as an environmentalist.  We already have enough of those on city council.

Let's not be fooled.  Everyone who cares about Austin's future, and in particular protecting our environment, should vote for Laura Morrison.  Let me explain.

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Having served on Austin's Planning Commission, Galindo calls himself an "urban planner."  But he has no urban planning in his education.  Though he claims professional planning experience, he hasn't pointed to any examples of his work.  His work with "the Galindo Group" of companies makes clear that he is a business and real estate guy in his father's firm.  There's nothing wrong with that, so why call your self something else?  

There are no legal limits on who can claim the "urban planner" title, like there are for "attorney" and "professional engineer," so Galindo can call himself whatever he likes.  

Cid's plan for managing Austin's growth, the "Galindo Plan," has admirable goals: to focus a higher density form of development within Austin's Desired Development Zone, or "DDZ," (mostly to the east) and to limit total impervious cover in the Barton Springs watershed to no more than 10 percent overall.  

How would Cid do this?  He proposes "regulatory and market intervention strategies," "public-private partnerships" to establish "seven major new town centers" within the Desired Zone, and a voluntary "transfer of development rights" scheme to move development out of the Drinking Water Protection Zone ("DWPZ") and into the DDZ.

The "Galindo Plan" (as he calls it) starts with the assumption that Austin has grown at 3.5 percent per year for 100 years and, therefore, this will continue for the next 30 years at least.  Accepting this fate, he joins Mayor Wynn in insisting we cannot do anything about it, so our only choice is to deal with it. (I hear an echo of Republican gubernatorial candidate Clayton Williams who infamously said: "if you can't do anything about it then you might as well lay back and enjoy it.")

If we really are helpless in affecting our growth rate, then the first thing Galindo (and Wynn) should do is cut off all subsidies and other economic development spending.  If it's "gonna happen anyway" every penny spent promoting growth is a penny wasted.  

This core assumption is wrong.  It is also undesirable.  

First, the historic trend blurs Austin growth and with metropolitan area growth. Second, it reflects growth resulting from decades of consistent and highly aggressive marketing of Austin.  It didn't just "happen."

Third, and related, city policies can affect growth rates. We can't stop growth.  There are many factors outside our control that affect growth.  But we can implement policies that promote slower, more manageable rates of growth.  That would start with, for example, requiring all corporations to pay their fair share rather than handing out tens of millions in tax rebates and other subsidies.  

Hypergrowth is inherently unmanageable and is the root cause of almost all of Austin's worst problems: a shortage of affordable housing, increasing air and water pollution, worsening traffic, disappearing habitats and farmland, and increasing taxes and utility rates. Since infill development-the kind Galindo wants-is inherently slower than "greenfields" development, the rate of growth Galindo assumes as a given will, if realized, doom his plan to failure.  

Yet Galindo insists without doubts or misgivings that Austin's population will more than double in the next 25 years, going "from 925,000 people to more than 2.5 million people."    This is not sustainable, manageable or desirable.

Starting with the 3.5 percent per year growth rate assumption, Galindo then seeks to allocate that growth, with a goal of 5 percent per year for the "Desired Development Zone" and 1.5 percent for the Drinking Water Protection Zone.  His key strategy for achieving this differential is a "transfer of development rights" mechanism whereby development that would take place in the DWPZ is transferred to the DDZ by means of a voluntary trading scheme.  Developers in the DDZ would purchase the right to build more densely by buying "rights" from landowners in the DWPZ.

The only problem is that "TDR" schemes have, for decades, been proven to fail in the absence of total, iron-fisted control of development opportunities.  Absent such control, developers know they don't have to purchase anything - they will just get it approved anyway.  First, the City would need to strictly limit development in the DWPZ, so that the only real potential for profit is in trading the development potential to the east.  State grandfathering law makes this problematic at best.  At would Cid or the City Council really tell DWPZ landowners they could only trade rights to the east rather than develop their own property?

Galindo knows the answer to this question is "no." He also knows that much of the development threatening to bust his proposed 10 percent impervious cover limit in the Barton Springs watershed is completely outside Austin's regulatory jurisdiction. Hence, he calls for "voluntary" trades.  But such trades will rarely make sense - development in the DWPZ is highly profitable and much of development in the DDZ is already entitled.

For a TDR scheme to work, the City Council would also have to limit zoning in the DDZ to less than acceptable levels and forsake all granting of variances, upzonings, and the like absent a purchase and transfer of development potential to the DWPZ.  How likely is this to happen, even in those places where grandfathering does not prohibit such action? Not likely.

In short, TDR is a planner textbook idea that only works in the rarest of places where the essential components of sufficient legal powers and political stability co-exist.  That describes Aspen, Colorado, for example, not Austin, Texas.  

But let's do at least give him credit for favoring more compact, more sustainable greenfields development within the DDZ and agreeing that we need to minimize development in the Barton Springs watershed.

However, he shows his true colors on Barton Springs protection when he writes that he opposes the Fix 290 Coalition's parkway alternative to the CAMPO plan for a massive, tolled mixmaster at the Oak Hill "Y."  If he believes his own plan, then the mega-mixmaster won't be needed.  And building it with 40-year bonded debt that relies on future toll revenues generated from predicted endless Hill Country sprawl, would force him (and us) to choose between saving the Hill Country and bankrupting the toll project or paving the Hill Country in order to save the toll project.  It's a financial and environmental nightmare waiting to happen.

Galindo also writes that he supports the recent SOS ordinance amendments.  Those amendments were opposed by the Austin Sierra Club, the Save Barton Creek Association, and the Save Our Springs Alliance.  Why?  Because they allow yet more intensive development in the Barton Springs watershed and thus more, not less, pollution.  They also allow the worst kind of "redevelopment" - on steep slopes, on top of recharge features, and within critical water quality stream buffer zones.  

Galindo goes another step, attacking the site-by-site limits on impervious cover in the SOS ordinance in favor of a more "holistic" approach of limiting impervious cover over the entire watershed.  This equates to saying "Austin gets to pave as much as we want and everyone else out there - Dripping Springs, Buda, Kyle, Hays County-don't get to develop anything."  Rather convenient if you are running for city office in Austin and want to give developers within Austin's jurisdiction even more development rights than they already have.

On these points Laura Morrison supports the Fix290 Coalition plan for the "Y" and opposes the recent SOS redevelopment amendment.  (It's worth noting that Robin Cravey sides with city staff and council and against the environmental community in his support for the SOS amendments.)

In short, the "Galindo Plan" is unworkable, with his core assumption of endless 3.5 percent annual growth rate and his key strategy of TDRs, dooming the plan from the start.  And his positions on critical Barton Springs protection issues make clear that he is no friend of Barton Springs.  Galindo is the developer candidate, and Laura Morrison is the candidate for protecting our neighborhoods and environment.

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Absurd (3.00 / 1)
Taking the 290 issue as one example, Morrison's implied 'no-growth' position is just as subject to the overriding control of the state legislature, if not more, as is Galindo's TDR idea. Morrison gets to exert nearly zero control over what TXDOT does at the Y; so even if we accept the questionable contention that there's not enough current demand to support the big tollway, she wouldn't get to decide anyways.

By the way, this is one thing that SOS and many other environmentalists get crucially wrong. A free parkway, even 6 lanes (although fix290 acknowledges eventual expansion to 8),  would spur much MORE suburban sprawl out there than would a tollway, even a big ugly one. When people are shopping for homes, they rarely pay close attention to the gas tax cost they'd incur on their commute - but they sure as heck notice when their real estate agent takes them through a tollbooth.

I do not think it's a coincidence that many self-identified environmentalists live out in the 'country' that way and drive many many many miles, and have now found themselves opposing toll roads.


couple of nits to pick (0.00 / 0)
First, Mike, I think you were right 5 years ago about the suburbanites not noticing the gas price (you said tax, but it's really the entire price that matters) but you are no longer right in the era of $4 and rising gas prices.  The price of tolls is being dwarfed by the price of gas (witness the "enthusiastic" use of the tolls up north while a the same time gas use declines) and the suburbs are dying, measurably.  I can point you to any number of articles, but here's one that's currently on my rss feed:

http://www.businessweek.com/ma...

The only way your argument is still valid is if you think the price of oil is going down.  Sure, a lot of the current uptick is based on dollar devaluation by the Fed and the resulting speculative bubble.  But just as much of it is based on pure supply and demand, a picture that is not improving.  

As realities change, it behooves us to slow down our suburbia-centric road model.  Capacity is what's important here, as the 12-lane tolled behemoth costs 4x as much as the "add-a-lane" parkway and has far less environmental impact.

As a second point, I know a lot of people call themselves environmentalist these days, but none of the ones in my circle that I'm aware of live either over the aquifer or in the suburbs.  They're all in the 183 north/Ben White south boundaries, and most even closer than that.


[ Parent ]
I mean the old-school environmentalists (0.00 / 0)
the type driving old Volvos or Subarus, for instance.

As for the price of gas - it still stands - the price of gas is being noticed, sure, but not when they're house-shopping, at least, it's not as obvious as going through a tollbooth.

I'll agree with you on the capacity if you'll agree to toll the parkway. Deal? Otherwise we're continuing the old model of screwing urban drivers and non-drivers so suburbanites can commute for 'free' (and, of course, those old-school supposed environmentalists who just want to keep everybody else from living over the aquifer).


[ Parent ]
if it was up to me (0.00 / 0)
I would keep the road at its current capacity and gradually through attrition buy all the houses in Oak Hill, demolish them, and xeriscape the lots. :)  But if we must compromise, I'll agree on slapping a toll onto the parkway expansion.

[ Parent ]
Morrison Allies Growing Desperate (2.50 / 2)

Unfortunately, in part spurred by the Statesman's surprise endorsement of practical Robin Cravey, nay-sayer Morrisons enviromental and NIMBY allies are rightfully over Craveys sudden momentum. Cravey and Morrison's votes come from same constituency: liberal, enivromentally-conscious center-city voters. Robin's rise comes out of Morrison's pocket.

The big winner will wind up being Cid Galindo who has a wider coalition of liberal VMU "smart-growth, independent to Republican voters, and minorities.

With her sudden constituency battle with Cravey and her lackluster commercial (negative tone, doesn't smile), its possible Morrison could come in 3rd on May 10th.


Interesting point (0.00 / 0)
I am supporting Cravey but think Morrison is still the clear favorite.  

[ Parent ]
head stuck in sand (3.00 / 4)
So someone sees a consistent 30 year pattern of growth, growth Bunch admits we can't stop, and has the audacity to plan for it coming at roughly the same rate over the next 30 years? Off with his head!

I already voted for Cravey but attacking Galindo for at least offering a plan for how we can absorb the next 30 years of growth without killing the aquifer is just wrong.

I moved here, Bunch moved here, Galindo, Cravey and Morrison moved here, and I bet not one of us did so because of "subsidies." I know I didn't. I came here to go to the Unversity, fell in love with Austin and stayed. That's the biggest driver of growth in Austin, not subsidies.



you're absolutely correct, of course (4.00 / 2)
Cid's plan I believe, is actually the work of a Planning Commission study on Austin's growth over the next 30 years.  3-3.5% growth over that time is entirely reasonable given the history of Austin and the history of other cities our size over the past 50 years.

Regarding TDRs, I don't want to get in a tissy with Bill Bunch since we're ostensibly on the same team, but opposition from certain segments of the environmental community to TDRs (Developer giveaways!) is one of the reason we haven't been able to make them work in the past.  WE HAD A DEAL WITH STRATUS FOR A TDR AT MUELLER EIGHT YEARS AGO!!!

http://www.austinchronicle.com...

Search for "All negotiations with Stratus must cease."  Who is the quoted party there?  That single deal would have saved more aquifer land than we've been able to do through regulatory activism in the eight years since.

Some in the community think that we can convince Council to show some testicular fortitude and deny upzoning over the aquifer.  I haven't seen it yet, and even if we gain a vote in the current Council election (my guess is we lose Kim's vote and gain Morrison/Cravey's vote) we'll still lose 5-2.  In the past decade, we've only been successful when we spent money buying conservation land.  If bribing Stratus not to build is the only answer to our problems, let's restrain our pride and sign on the dotted line.

In conclusion, vote Robin Cravey! :)


[ Parent ]
sorry, not true and also a very bad idea (0.00 / 0)
Kedron,  Your statement that "we had a deal with Stratus for a TDR at Mueller" is simply false.  If we had one, please tell us what the deal was (how much Barton Creek development erased for how much development at Mueller??)  

The idea of giving Stratus the monopoly right to negotiate such a deal was floated, and shot down by lots of folks (but if you want to give me credit or blame, i'd be happy to take it).  It was a prescription for Stratus ripping off taxpayers, making sure we got the worst deal for Barton Springs and the worst deal for Mueller. We supported an open bidding among Barton Springs watershed landowners for swapping rights at Mueller, but somehow the city council was not interested in that approach.  

Remember you are talking about the company's whose lobbyist brags in the documentary "the Unforeseen" that they "burned Austin to the ground."  And Stratus/Freeport was the largest discharger of toxics into the waters of the United States back then.

So hey, let's dump them on the Eastside.  And after Mueller neighbors had spent years negotiating to do it right (with the idea of a competitive process to find a company that actually had some interest and ability to do it right). Perhaps you'd like to go tell Jim Walker and all of the folks who worked so hard on Mueller how wonderful it would have been to have handed Stratus an insider, no bid deal on  Mueller.

Selling out neighborhoods and fair and open public procedures is not really a way to save Barton Springs.

In conclusion, vote Laura Morrison!!

 


[ Parent ]
Deal With It (2.00 / 1)
Cid has a solid plan for addressing our regional growth, and his plan is consistent both with CAMPO's plan for activity centers and Envision Central Texas'preferred development scenario.  

For more than a decade in Austin, we have sought cooperation between environmentalists, developers, and other citizen in addressing how we manage growth.  More often than not, we've been successful.  Where we've clearly seen success is in ending the acrimony that existed between environmenatlists and developers such as we saw when Bruce Todd and Ronnie Reynolds were on the Council.  This cooperation also resulted in the Central City Coalition that has been the guiding force in local elections up until now.

That Coalition, though, has been weakening as the NW and SW neighborshood have increased in size and political influence.  And, it was clear from the start that this open Council seat would be a challenge to the Coaltion, particularly when some of the Coaltion members lined-up behind a divisive candidate like Morrison.

Morrison and company seem to want to go back to the acrimony of the early 90s.  She has no plan for responding to growth and its effect on affordability, traffic, and other quality of life concerns other than to criticize the plans that others have put forth.


[ Parent ]
An Alternative, Geographic Representation for Austin (0.00 / 0)
The citizens of South, Southeast, and Southwest Austin do not want or need the guiding force of the Central Austin Coalition for setting city policies. I suspect that Northwest and Northeast Austin could live without thier guilding force also.

The current at-large election system for electing city council members is basically elitist in nature. Everybody can argue as much as they want over specific policies, plans, and candidates for this election cycle, I will mainly argue for representative democracy.

Let's vote on for single member districts and/or a mixed district system this November. Whose for that?


[ Parent ]
Single member districts with weak mayor (0.00 / 0)
will be a disaster. Might as well just poll the neighborhood associations and let them decide everything (as, ironically, many in the ANC THINK they'd like to do - I think they'd find they have less in common with the non-central NAs than they think).

Only way I think single-member districts would be a good idea is if we moved to a strong mayor system. Somebody needs to represent the interests of the city as a whole - especially if you devolve the rest of the council to provincialism.


[ Parent ]
Not opposed to a strong mayor but: (0.00 / 0)
My point is a council member from a single member district would be able to stand up to the neighborhood associations, developers, and public safety unions to vote the overall interests of the city should they choose to exercise some backbone.

They would run in a small enough district to campaign door to door to defend their votes and promote their agenda. Currentily, the at-large election system is a auction for coalitions of special interests and their endorsing groups to choose our council members. We need to change the rules to alter the game, or play the same game over and over.

In the early 70's, we elected all our State Representatives at-large, county-wide, for Travis County. Does anyone think we should go back to that arrangement and elect all five State Representatives county-wide by place?



[ Parent ]
I think precisely the opposite (0.00 / 0)
at least with NA's - a single-member councilman is going to be even more beholden to them than some of the old councilmembers their bloc helped elect back in the Jackie Goodman days.

[ Parent ]
Well we will just have to disagreed (0.00 / 0)
Most neighborhood groups have a small amount of members compared to the size of the neighborhood they say they represent. By going door to door and talking to residents, a council member could get a true read of that neighborhood's true needs and concerns for city services.
I am tired of zealots and self appointed representatives setting city policy.

[ Parent ]
That's true (0.00 / 0)
I'd like to be optimistic and say that's how it would pan out - it is one possible outcome. You'd have to also presume that the change would result in more people getting out to vote in those city elections, though, since right now those small blocs that end up running the NAs are the most likely ones to vote.

[ Parent ]
Council Districts (2.00 / 1)
With districts, a council member might be more beholden to neighborhoods in their district (and they will have a better sense of who is speaking for who).  More importantly, they won't be beholden to NAs outside of their district.

One of the real values of districts, though, would be the clear lines of accountability between a council member and his district.  Residents of the district would know who they could call at City Hall, and the Council Member would know that they needed to be on top of projects and events inside their district.  

I've gotten the impression that many of the neighborhood frustrations and grievances have resulted from the lack of clear accountability.  We have had many contentious and protracted fights over neighborhood issues that could have been avoided or mitigated if there were a Council Member responsible for a specific area who would have been there to speak to the neighbors and keep them informed and who could have made efforts to negotiate some kind of agreement.  I'm thinking of disputes such as the Northcross WalMart, relocation of the Animal Shelter, CWS's lakeside towers, and redevelopment of the South Austin Tennis Center.


[ Parent ]
Yes, but (0.00 / 0)
in most of those cases, the neighborhoods immediately affected were pushing for the wrong, and sometimes illegal, solution. How does pandering to them even more make this better? Yes, they might have an even stronger incentive to deny a legal site plan and get the city sued by Lincoln (which they'd lose)?

[ Parent ]
Why Morrison over Cravey? (2.50 / 2)
That's the question that they need to answer.  Too late for me I guess, as I already voted for Cravey, but I was on the fence between them for a while, leaning towards Morrison for her presumed better chances but went the other way when I saw how many were supporting Cravey and the fact that he's a slightly better candidate.

I don't know if it will help Galindo, it's just more likely to turn it into a run-off between him and Morrison or Cravey.

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."- James A. Baldwin


I tend to agree with you (0.00 / 0)
I think Galindo will likely make the runoff but does not have a very good chance to win.  Cravey and Morrison both appeal to a runoff electorate much better than Galindo does.

[ Parent ]
Important Correction to discussions of 290 Parkway plan (0.00 / 0)
Contrary to what is said above, Fix290's proposed parkway can handle the same traffic as TxDOT's elevated, tolled superhighway.  The two proposals differ on dimensions other than capacity (where they are identical).

What TxDOT proposes is a six-lane elevated tolled facility and six lanes of parallel nontolled frontage roads (a total of 12 lanes wide).

The wide cross-section proposed by TxDOT requires mowing down 47 acres of several 100-plus year old oaks, pecans, and sycamores. Their plan calls for channelizing Williamson Creek - turning a mile of spring-fed creek into a widened concrete ditch to handle flooding caused by so much extra pavement.

This creek destruction may be ameliorated with a bypass storm tunnel won in bargaining between TxDOT and Oak Hill groups.  However, the tunnel discharges dirty stormwater directly into the aquifer to Barton Springs. Also, adjacent neighborhoods would be hit by the blight and noise of a mile-long road slab elevated 25 feet above grade.  The "Y" interchange at maximum height would be 50 feet tall.

As an alternative, Fix 290 proposes six to eight freeway lanes only--no frontage roads--all on ground level. This "no frontage road" design--the norm in 49 states other than Texas--is termed a "parkway" by CAMPO (local road agency). Frontage roads basically supply access to surrounding property, NOT capacity.

US 290 for one mile east of the SH 71 "Y" intersection is largely empty of buildings, b/c TXDOT already bought and demolished them to allow the wide design.  

Fix 290 proposes that an additional five small properties, that would otherwise be landlocked without a frontage rd, be bought up and removed, and frontage roads thereby omitted from the design. [See www.fix290.com ]  The open space left over can become new public greenbelt along Williamson Creek and "landbanked" for future road expansion, if ever needed.

State law says that in converting any existing highway to tolled operation that you must supply at least as many free lanes WITHIN THE SAME RIGHT OF WAY. Therefore, tolling all six main lanes--per the TxDOT plan--automatically forces the road to be twice as wide. It's also taller b/c the frontage rds need turn-arounds under the freeway, spaced at close intervals.

[Effectively three frontage lanes carries as much traffic as one freeway lane.  That is how an 8-lane freeway facility (max buildout under the parkway plan) equates to the capacity of txDOT's 6+6.]

Fix 290 proposes an initial build of 6 freeway lanes w/ the later 2 lanes added before 2030 if traffic does in fact grow to projection. If growth is even bigger than that, there is plenty of room left over at grade and in the air to add  more capacity.  However, should growth be LESS than expected, then we are out far less money and environmental damage.

So, if someone says a parkway starves capacity -- no, it doesn't. If someone else says it gives TOO MUCH capacity for their preferences -- well, no, it doesn't -- not any more than TxDOT's. So the proposal neither increases nor decreases projected growth assumptions but instead works within them.


I don't like new free freeway capacity (0.00 / 0)
I don't think people who moved out there deserve to be served with limited-access freeway lanes at the expense of urban taxpayers. That's what the old business-as-usual funding mechanism boiled down to - rural and suburban commuters taking gas taxes AND sales/property taxes from central Austinites for the privilege of polluting the springs for us.

No Thanks.

If I have my way, you get your road tolled or not at all. Even if it ends up being bigger/uglier/stupider than I would like as a result.


[ Parent ]
easy for you to say (3.00 / 1)
You are being self-indulgent here.  You are not doing the hard work of coalition building between disparate interests to get something done.  you are just spewing on a blog.  Advocating for no road at all is purist, but it's not effective.

The TxDOT plan is not JUST "bigger/uglier/stupider"--it forecloses other options permanently and carries significant near-term risk of severe damage to the aquifer.  And it is all avoidable damage.  The only moral thing to do is to act effectively to avert this permanent damage. Anything else is just posturing that objectively aids the pro-sprawl forces.

The parkway is the best feasible POSITIVE alternative to doing nothing to stop the twelve-lane monstrosity, which is bad from almost every point of view.  Exactly why there is an "odd bedfellows" coalition against it.  Whether someone wants to save the neighborhood, aquifer, parks, trees, time, or tolls, they all have a reason not to like the TxDOT scheme.

Plus, if it ever needed to be "bigger/uglier/stupider" in the future, and/or be tolled solely to punish suburbanites for their sins - as seems to be your preference - then those options are NOT foreclosed.  o/t/o/h, if TxDOT's plan gets built, there is effectively no turning back to making it less destructive.

A twelve-lane facility in that spot would also be near-term destruction, as opposed to longer-term consequences of secondary growth stimulated by the six to eight lane freeway. There would actually be little to no net addition of impervious cover resulting immediately from the parkway plan.  The right-of-way along Williamson Creek can become a greenbelt park instead of being paved over.  

A different battle -- but the $300 million in construction cost savings could also be applied to different transportation and land use solutions. That can mitigate the effects of that secondary sprawl growth that is the chief unaddressed problem of any new highway capacity.

Tolling will fail financially; the present scheme requires tax dollars mixed with toll dollars to work.  You may believe that TxDOT's tolling avoids the road tax subsidies--but it doesn't.  

If toll revenues fall short, the road gets bailed out w/ tax dollars.  Which is a major part of the reason why the costs of recent toll projects are ballooning so rapidly, b/c there is no incentive for builders to exercise cost discipline.


[ Parent ]
That's because I'd be happy if no road got built at all (0.00 / 0)
You're assuming my interest is in either road. I'd be more than happy with the status quo - but your proposed parkway is the worst of all worlds - continue to subsidize the people who got us in this environmental mess to begin with.

And, no, you're absolutely wrong: there's essentially zero road tax subsidies from urbanites to commuters with the toll plan - because it relies only on a small fraction of gas taxes for funding (essentially less than those suburbanites actually contribute), and the old, business-as-usual model that grabs urban drivers' gas taxes, also required large injections of money from city and county general funds. Don't forget that - your parkway would end up being subsidized by Central Austinites who don't even drive.

There's no danger of toll revenues falling short - all of the phase 1 roads except 130 have blasted past expectations even with gas higher than the supposed doomsday figure of $3/gallon; and SH130 isn't fully done.


[ Parent ]
so build it big and bad (0.00 / 0)
and possibly lose the aquifer. and you're really ok w/ that.

crazy.

you shouldn't cheerlead for TxDOT unless you're getting paid for it.  your armchair criticisms of people who are trying to do something are getting to be a tiresome waste of time.

1- the county and city already contributed their share w/ a r-o-w for 290 already acquired.  So the subsidy from non-car driving central Austinites has already occurred for this project, & there is no retrieval.

2- we only have a couple of years of experience w/ the existing toll rds (SH 130, SH 45 North, Mopac North). The "larger than expected" traffic on these toll roads is likely  due to the traffic projections being deliberately 'low-balled.'  you can't tell anything from a few months of data.

3-you have a crystal ball that says they won't ultimately resort to a taxpayer bailout if they DO fall short on revenue?  you know they would have to step in w/ tax money if they came up short, to save the state credit rating.  SH 130 has a state guarantee of the debt written into the bond covenants, is my understanding.

4- no surplus on operations has actually been earned, at least on US 183A according to recent information -- they only have surplus to spend b/c they came in lower on construction than expected -- i.e., they borrowed more than they actually needed to in order to finish SH 130 and US 183A.  

5- Plus, the City of Austin gave up $70 million-plus of rebated Cap Metro surplus sales tax monies to TxDOT to help them build Mopac North/ SH 45 North.  Surely you didn't approve of that action?

6- Road districts in the 1980s and early 90s were a forerunner of "innovative, market based road financing." When they failed, the county stepped in to bail them out. This was in a time when there was not the problem w/ gasoline prices.

So, let's see what happens as the price of gasoline increases further.  there is clearly risk w/ this new round of toll road plans, which all have an Enron-styled prospectus.  


Big and Bad and Tolled = less sprawl than 'Free' (0.00 / 0)
No, I'm willing to wait a bit on the "build it big and bad" approach and see if they run out of gas. The only thing worse than "build it big and bad (and tolled)" is "build it 8 lanes and free".

Yes, I mean it. Even the worst possible construction of the "big and bad" provides less incentive for further sprawl out in the aquifer than does business as usual - the business as usual case takes gas taxes from Central Austin and property/sales taxes from all of Austin to build a commuter roadway to encourage more people to live farther out from town.

Not Interested.

BTW, the worst case with toll roads (where taxpayers end up bailing them out) is no worse than business-as-usual - as typical, you're ignoring the fact that suburban commuters don't come close to paying their own way under the gas-tax-regime anyways, so we're already bailing them out.

As for #5, you're listening to too much Sal Costello. Those roadways were built under the last gasp of business-as-usual - planned as tollways from day one - and, no, I didn't approve of that 'donation', but returning to 'free'ways means MORE and BIGGER donations of that type - whereas the phase II tollways actually result in a REBATE of previous donations of that type back to the city and county.


[ Parent ]
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