What Clinton Should Do If She Quits in April

Let the Voters decide (5.00 / 1)

I feel it is important to promote Democracy.  As Democrats we are the "Party of the People".  Lets allow the good Democratic Voters of the states that have not had their Primary to have their say.  It is the right thing to do until someone has clinched the Democratic Nomination.  

Thanks,

LAWRENCE G. ROMO, Lt Col USAFR (Ret)
Texas Democratic Veterans Chairman

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by: llromo @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 02:09:54 AM UTC

A lot of good that did in 2004 (0.00 / 0)

That one pretty much ended with 90% of the states missing out on the fun.  

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by: Karl-Thomas Musselman @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 02:23:21 AM UTC

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And Kerry sailed to victory (5.00 / 1)

after what, 1 caucus and 1 primary? Maybe this longer primary season will make for a stronger General Election candidate.

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by: Elsbeth @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:22:39 AM UTC

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But if she does stop? (0.00 / 0)

Powerful arguments have been made for her to stop campaigning.  And if the Scotsman's report is true, than powerful people will also make those arguments.

I would think that, unless Hilary Clinton is the embodiment of arrogance (a possibility yet), that she would have to at that point at least consider the possibility of dropping out.  Such considerations would have to include how she would go about doing it and how she would act afterwards.

"Let us tenderly and kindly cherish therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write."  -  John Adams

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by: Michael Hurta @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 02:38:43 AM UTC

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The Scotsman? (4.00 / 2)

Well, of course it must be true. Everyone looks to "The Scotsman" for the news.

And if the Scotsman's report is true, than powerful people will also make those arguments.

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by: Elsbeth @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:14:50 AM UTC

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notably (4.00 / 2)

This is the same newspaper that originally reported of Samantha Power calling Clinton a "monster."  

"Let us tenderly and kindly cherish therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write."  -  John Adams

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by: Michael Hurta @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:31:22 AM UTC

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I realize that (3.50 / 2)

Sounds like they try to destroy careers, mostly.  

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by: Elsbeth @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:07:39 AM UTC

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What? (0.00 / 0)

Seriously? Just b/c its not an American newspaper, it can't be accurate? Let me tell you, the NY Times and WaPo could learn our lesson or two from our friends across the pond...

Now, a very great man once said that some people rob you with a fountain pen.

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by: Phillip Martin, Progress Texas @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:33:03 AM UTC

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Yes, seriously (0.00 / 0)

I will say the article is superior tabloid journalism. Good stuff.

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by: Elsbeth @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:04:11 AM UTC

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And I'm saying (5.00 / 1)

The paper is plenty credible, and there's no reason to doubt it.

If we're going to read about how Obama bowls then we're going to read how a former President and former Vice President may interact with politics. That is in no way tabloid journalism - its actually rather important.

And President Carter hasn't exactly made his intentions secret. I watched on CNN a few weeks ago when he announced most of his family was for Obama, but he wouldn't announce but alluded that he was, too. So there's nothing dishonest in the reporting.

Just b/c you don't like it doesn't mean its tabloid.

Now, a very great man once said that some people rob you with a fountain pen.

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by: Phillip Martin, Progress Texas @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:12:54 AM UTC

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I never said (0.00 / 0)

I didn't like it. This statement quoted above:

"They're in discussions," a source close to Carter told Scotland on Sunday. "Carter has been talking to Gore. They will act, possibly together, or in sequence."

"They will act, possibly together, or in sequence."

That's a weird statement.

And what or who is Scotland in that quote? Weird. It's all weird. Scottish news.

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by: Elsbeth @ Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 03:54:21 AM UTC

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Phillip (0.00 / 0)

have you been following the 'stros?

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by: Pat C. @ Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 04:21:36 AM UTC

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I agree (3.00 / 1)

Trying to pressure her to drop out will only alienate her hardcore supporters ... who Obama will need in November.

I say we let PA, NC, IN, WV, OR, KY, MT, SD and PR have a say.

Thanks for your comment.  

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by: David Mauro @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:33:26 AM UTC

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The voters HAVE decided. Hillary cannot catch up to Obama among (4.00 / 2)

the voters.

Hillary is staying in the race in the hope that the voters' decision will be overturned by super-delegates, which won't happen (and if it did, it would cost us the presidential election and probably the House and Senate majorities as well).

The Democrats who are still supporting Hillary are like the Republicans still supporting Paul except that the Pauline Republicans are generally more aware that the race (in both parties' primaries) is already over.

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by: StopCornyn @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:24:20 AM UTC

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Hillary's February 5th Strategy (4.00 / 2)

I don't buy the argument that a candidate should stick in a primary race even if the result has already been determined so that "all the states get to have their say".  They still all get to vote.  The campaigns continuing even though the result is already determined won't make them matter more.

I'm not saying she should quit right now, she still has a chance, though it's slim at this point and getting slimmer.  She should at least wait till Pennsylvania.  

I think this whole argument from Clinton is calculated, not sincere, as witnessed by her widely acknowledged plan to have the nomination wrapped up by February 5th.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Hillary on December 17th:

SEN. CLINTON: I'm going to leave that to you. You all have a great way with a turn of phrase. But what I'm going to do is to just keep working hard every day, knocking on doors, making phone calls, talking to people.

I feel very good about where we were. This has always been a challenge. I'm going to start on January 3rd with the caucuses in Iowa and go all the way until February 5th, because at the end of the campaign what you need are enough delegates to actually get you the nomination. And I believe that I will get the nomination and that I will be the next president.

http://www.votesmart.org/speec...

Where was her concern for all the state's after February 5th?

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."- James A. Baldwin

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by: Timothy @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 05:34:13 AM UTC

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Calls up and down? (5.00 / 1)

I know we've heard from Leahy and a few other prominent Obama supporters but have there really been "calls up and down" for her to drop out?

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by: David Mauro @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:35:59 AM UTC

not necessarily a mass wave of them, but yes. (0.00 / 0)

There has been Leahy and a few other bigger name supporters, but there has also been calls from less-prominent supporters (i.e. this BOR diary, and that accounts for the down.

Prominent up.
less-prominent down.

and a note: I'm not specifically calling for her to drop out.  I understand the sentiments that demanding a candidate to drop out might be uncalled for.  But I think the arguments that it would be best for her to get out are accurate.  (I just don't think she, eh, needs to - at least not when she can still mathematically win, if improbably.)


"Let us tenderly and kindly cherish therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write."  -  John Adams

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by: Michael Hurta @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 03:53:14 AM UTC

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No reason to quit (0.00 / 0)

But I think the arguments that it would be best for her to get out are accurate.

This call for her to "get out" is a disingenuous strategy promoted by the Obama campaign.

Like Samantha Power calling her a "monster" ~ it's not working out very well.  

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by: Elsbeth @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:19:13 AM UTC

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This isn't a call of my own (0.00 / 0)

I'm not demanding it.  It's up to her.  I don't see that the party would be terribly hurt just by her staying in, as some people do.

All I was saying was this: If I were in her position I would get out (though probably not until the Pennsylvania primary), simply because the arguments for her to do so make sense.  She obviously currently favors the arguments otherwise, and its fair for her to do so.  In reality, the decision to be made is a private one for her to make.

I think people need to differentiate between public demands for her to get out and public contentions that she should get out.  The difference is subtle, but I think it is significant.

"Let us tenderly and kindly cherish therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write."  -  John Adams

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by: Michael Hurta @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:35:38 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Calls to get out (4.00 / 2)

The problem is that most of the calls so far have been from Obama supporters.

While the pledged delegate math is difficult for Clinton to overcome, it is not yet impossible.  Furthermore, she doesn't have to overcome the pledged delegate numbers.  She just needs to get the pledged delegate and the popular vote counts close enough that the unpledged delegates can call it a tie.

Its a lot easier to make an argument to superdelegates if the final gap of pledged delegates is less than 50 (especially if Florida and Michigan are not included in the count).  Right now to have a chance, Clinton needs clear wins in Pennsylvania, Kentucky and Indiana, preferably with numbers more like Rhode Island than Ohio. She also needs to keep it close (probably over 45%) in North Carolina and Oregon.  That would give her an outside chance at moving ahead in the popular vote (again depending on if you count Michigan and Florida or don't count them).  

If she can get the "virtual" tie, then she can try to piece together an argument about why she as the thoroughly vetted candidate has a better chance at winning than the newcomer.  All of this is not saying that she will or should win, but just that folks in her campaign can still make a credible argument to her on how she can still win this election.

I am not sure that Gore and Carter by themselves carry any more weight than other Obama supporters.  If either had endorsed Obama in December, nobody would have been shocked.  For all of his international reputation, President Carter does not carry a lot of credibility with moderate Democrats.  The Clinton folks also remember how much Gore dissed them in 2000 -- probably costing Gore the chance for a clear win in that election.

The only way that Clinton gets out in April is if one of two things happen.  First, she actually loses Pennsylvania.  Second, not just Gore and Carter, but a group of 50-60 unpledged delegates announce in mass for Obama including respected moderates.  

Most likely she does just well enough in Pennsylvania to justify competing in Indiana, just well enough in Indiana to justify competing in Kentucky, just well enough in Kentucky to justify competing in Puerto Rico, and just well enough in Puerto Rico to justify making a pitch to the unpledged delegates.

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by: tmess2 @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 06:06:20 AM UTC

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Gore is bigger than Carter (3.00 / 1)

Because notably, Gore has done his best to keep quiet on the issue entirely.  And the media has hyped Gore in many ways.

While it might be best to assume Gore is an Obama supporter (and voted for him), his great silence thus far would give more credibility to his choice.  

Besides that, I do agree that Clinton needs big wins in Pennsylvania, Kentucky and Indiana.  That is why I don't see a drop-out before Pennsylvania at all.  But I could see her dropping out later April if Pennsylvania doesn't go as strong as she hopes.

"Let us tenderly and kindly cherish therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write."  -  John Adams

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by: Michael Hurta @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 07:01:52 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Michael's half-right (0.00 / 0)

As the author of the BOR diary to which Michael refers, I feel the need to clarify two points:

1)  Michael is half-wrong.  I did not call on Hillary Clinton to drop out.  In fact, I explicitly refused to do so:

Well, I have not called on Ms. Clinton to abandon her quest, and I will not do so now. It's her candidacy, and her legacy, and she can do with it what she wants.

2)  Michael is half-right.  I'm about as "un-prominent" as you can get.  

DeeceX: making Texas safe for democracy

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by: DeeceX @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 23:20:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

my apologies (0.00 / 0)

Thanks for correcting me.  I obviously didn't remember your diary with any thoroughness.  

"Let us tenderly and kindly cherish therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write."  -  John Adams

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by: Michael Hurta @ Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 01:07:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes (5.00 / 1)

but have there really been "calls up and down" for her to drop out?

Yes, there have been calls up and down from Obama supporters on the blogosphere for her to drop out.

From others?  Not so much.

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by: Jobu @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 15:40:27 PM UTC

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*yawn* (3.00 / 2)

another day, another "Clinton should quit" article written by an Obama supporter front-paged on BOR.  Are y'all really that starved for ad revenue?   I've noticed they're the only posts lately that seem to reliably get comments.  

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by: Kedron Touvell @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:03:08 AM UTC

Um (5.00 / 1)

That's the nature of BOR. We ALWAYS have more comments on the posts that are more controversial, versus our other more news-based posts.

We're not starved for ad revenue. The community sure doesn't seem to mind talking about it, though. So we give folks a space to talk about it. But if you notice, there are a number of relevant posts already today (and more to come). Maybe if our readers engaged in those posts more, there would be more of those (hint, hint).

Now, a very great man once said that some people rob you with a fountain pen.

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by: Phillip Martin, Progress Texas @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 15:53:03 PM UTC

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oh (0.00 / 0)

I'm just giving y'all a hard time. :) I did my part today, commenting on a bunch of posts.

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by: Kedron Touvell @ Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 17:40:11 PM UTC

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You misinterpret (0.00 / 0)

This is not a "Clinton should quit" diary, if you read carefully.  Although I concede that I think that, it is not what I write about.  I write about what Clinton should do if she quits in April, which I think is a good possibility.

If Carter/Gore do this, and if Clinton wins by less than 15 (or loses!) Pennsylvania, I see there being a good shot of her stepping out by the end of the month.

"Let us tenderly and kindly cherish therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write."  -  John Adams

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by: Michael Hurta @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 16:05:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Let her keep running (0.00 / 0)

THE MAGIC NUMBER

Here's what we have after considering the information in the Polls section below:

Senator Obama's Magic Number - 93 of 304 remaining superdelegates needed, or 30.6%
Senator Clinton's Magic Number - 230 of 304 remaining superdelegates needed, or 75.7%

The Huckabee Index - 74 (or 24.3% of remaining superdelegates needed)

The "Huckabee Index" is the number of any combination of superdelegates and convention/caucus delegates that the Obama campaign needs (or the Clinton campaign loses) to make it mathematically impossible for the Clinton campaign to win the nomination, based on current delegate count and polls for upcoming contests. (Disclaimer: This is meant to poke fun at Mike Huckabee, not Hillary Clinton)

http://www.democraticundergrou...

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by: MrJJ @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 18:29:01 PM UTC

Hillary Clinton (5.00 / 1)

essentially swift boated Gore and Kerry today (or maybe it was last night) when she said neither was elected because voters perceived that both men are elitist and out of touch with everyday Americans.  

I was for Hillary staying in the race until the last primary except when she resorts to Rovian attack dog methods.  This latest swift boating of Gore and Kerry are beyond the pale in my book.

The American voter did not believe either man was elitist or out of touch.  Bush and Rove and their hatchet people were able to, thanks to the complicity of the mainstream media, slap this label on both Democratic candidates and were lucky enough to make it stick.

I find it simply appalling that Hillary Clinton is resorting to these very same tactics.

Is she going to swift boat the entire membership of the Democratic Party before this thing is over?

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by: Libby Shaw @ Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 20:28:28 PM UTC

But (0.00 / 0)

I do believe that Obama opened the door with his comments in San Francisco. Talking to one state's wealthy donors about another state's less affluent voters is, well, a mistake.  

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by: Elsbeth @ Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 04:10:45 AM UTC

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Agreed Libby (0.00 / 0)

If Hillary is in the race, it would be nice if she could do more than merely parrot McCain attacks

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by: v2aggie2 @ Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 05:09:21 AM UTC

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Do you remember (1.00 / 1)

what swift boating is?

I thought we went over this with Glenn Smith a few months ago. There is no way tis can ever be compared to the swift boat attacks.

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by: David Mauro @ Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 05:43:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]