Burnt Orange Report

Governor of the year in 1998. Brings you Paul Begala and James Carville. This surely isn't the party of FDR, or Truman, and definately not Kennedy and Johnson. Its not your daddy's Democratic Party. More obstructionist than the loyal opposition.

Why do you say "This surely isn't the party of FDR, or Truman, and definately not Kennedy and Johnson?" What do you mean by, "obstructionist?" Please elaborate.

Zell Miller did more damage last night to the Republican Party than Kerry could ahve done in months. THanks Zell

GT,

What did Miller SAY that was wrong? What did he say that would make an undecided voter want to leave the room Miller stands in? Just because he was angry and spirited, doesen't mean he lied. Besides, he spoke about his own opinions.

Second: Byron L. (Nice Name Ironic that you have an "L" [left] and I have an "R" [right] --- and yes it is my real name.)

Okay Zell, the keynoter of the 1992 DNC convention, (thank you Seth.) endorsed Clinton in '92. Well Clinton talked a good game. All that "Dem. Leaderhip Council" bololgna that never went anywhere. How is it inconsistent to say that Kerry is "one of this nation's authentic heroes" but not think the guy is the best candidate for president.

His reference to "authentic heros" could be explained by referring to Kerry's purple hearts. I mean, Zell didn't challenge his service in the military and he didn't have on one of those goofy band-aids. When you are trying to be diplomataic and looking for something nice to say about somebody, you don't just stand there dumbstruck. And at that time there was no suspecion(sp) surrounding Kerry's Vietnam record.

Even if he did now decide to change his position and say that Kerry is not an "authentic hero," based on the SVFT, he could make a case for that too, not that it matters.

What matters is the poor judgement used by Kerry.
When did he (Kerry) first question the intelligence used to support evidence of WMD in Iraq? Captain Courageous never said anything about that until after it gave Dean a vein of support. Which weapons programs did Kerry put his support in for? Which ones did he really oppose?

Don't get mad when the truth comes from a source you consider to be suspect. Look at the message, not the messenger.

I agree with Byron L. that Zell is worse than Pat Buchanan. As a Republican, I am saddened to see the Convention parade a group of bigots alongside fair-minded moderates, all agreeing to support Bush on the ONE issue of fighting terrorism. No discussion of domestic issues, or how to undo a failed post-war reconstruction effort in Iraq, or how to restore alliances worldwide. Zell isn't a Democrat. He's a Bush Republican of the worst kind. I support the principles of Republicanism...but this group of speakers are supporting other ideas.
Arnold came close to the GOP ideal, but so did Barak Obama at the Democratic Convention.
If I had my way, I'd trade Santorum or some other freaks in the GOP for Obama anyday.

Here is link to a report that gives you that facts about what Miller was talking about,
http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=177, so that you can make you own opinion.

Miller questioned Kerry’s record of voting in the Senate over the past 20 years, which I do think is fair to question. My question is about Bush’s record over the past 3 years?

I give him the benefit of the doubt that we needed to go to Iraq (as does Senate Kerry, I believe) I just think they made many mistakes in the planning and execution of the war, and execution is something Bush should be good at. I think most people can agree they did screw that up.

And in my opinion, if you screw up a war, you don’t get a second chance or term.

Zell Miller charged Kerry with voting against the same weapons systems that Dick Cheney opposed, first as a congressman, and then as Secretary of Defense.

Actually, I am of the opinion that besides its hate-filled invective nature, there were some rhetorical genius in there (as...wrong...as the "spitballs" comment was, it would have been persuasive if I were, you know, a total moron).

It was cynical manipulation and proto-fascism disguised as righteous indignation. From a purely technical standpoint, it is interesting to study.

TC you say:
"And in my opinion, if you screw up a war, you don’t get a second chance or term."

I say:

Kinda like Somalia, huh. (you know Clinton, Adid, Blackhawk Down?)

Oh, but wait...

Zell Miller lied when he said that John Kerry would give Paris a veto over US National Security. John Kerry has repeatedly said that that is not true at all, and that if he were president, no one would have a veto over US National Security. Dick Cheney also lied when he said that John Kerry says there are two Americas - that's John Edwards.

The stuff regarding weapons systems were true but incredibly disingenuous. Zell Miller spoke right before Dick Cheney, who opposed many of the same systems as John Kerry, and furthermore, Miller praised Kerry three years ago for his record - the same record that he denounced him for last night.

Zell's speech was not only filled with anger and bitterness, it was statistically inaccurate. The accusations he used against Kerry are accusations that VP Cheney is guilty of committing as a Congressman and as Secretary of Defense.
Just a year and a half ago Zell was praising Kerry as a true American Hero. Who's the flipflopper?
One last thought. Judging from last night's speeches, Republicans as demonstrated by Zell Zag and Cheney, don't know how to say j-o-b-s...but they sure know how to utter w-a-r.

You've got to be joking, right?

BL, the Parisian Veto was pure hyperbole. Give a guy some literary license. SHEESH! Surely you understand that ZM was trying to make the case that the vital national interests must be determined in DC. And if others don't agree, we must still stick to our guns. (Please excuse the cowboy reference; I know you guys don't like that stuff.)

Good thing you pointed out that Cheney attributed the 2USA's to Kerry, not Edwards. We all know that if asked about the "2USA's" thing, Kerry would run from it like a weapons program appropriation. (That is not a lie. That is using the words of the ticket against the ticket. Please stop being so petty.)

Cheney has been out of congress since 1989, and served as Sec of Defense during Gulf I. He is now in favor of Star Wars. Not Kerry. That is the only example I know of, but after 15 years, it is okay to have a principled change in opinion. (Even for Kerry!)

Kerry flips today on issues like:

For Iraq invasion - Against Iraq invasion

For Removing trooops from Europe -Against Removing Troops from Europe

Hussein has WMD - Hussein Never had WMD.

Oh, and lets not forget, that he did vote for the 87B. After he voted against it.

Recent. Significant. True. Bad Judgement. Just like ZM said.

If someone is angry and bitter about the truly disingenuous attacks on Bush coming from the Dems, is it not appropiriate to express that emotion? If you keep it bottled up, you get all gassy. The tone was exact and appropriate.

You want definitions of 'obstructionist'??? How about voting against the 87B after voting for the approval of the use of force? How about complaining that we haven't moved troops out of Europe, the when we announce a 4 to 7 year plan to do just that, saying that we are being reactionary, and moving too fast!!!!

As to the issue of Jobs; If we don't defend ouselves in the war declared on us in 1998, we won't need no stinkin' jobs.

Note, that I haven't used the Swifties to malign Kerry, only his own words. ---Fair game right?

J-O-B-S?

You mean like they have so plentifully in Europe and all those other quasi-socialistic states that John Kerry would have us model ourselves after? You know... with unemployment in the double digits? =)

Democrats can throw the "jobs" line out there all they want. They think that Americans are too stupid or too forgetul to remember that unemployment rates have held steady near 6% ever since WWII. Or that Americans can't remember times where unemployment has been at 8, 10, 12% like in the 70's and early 80's.

But I'm sure we'll keep hearing the rhetoric. =)

Byron,

Regarding: Dick Cheney also lied when he said that John Kerry says there are two Americas - that's John Edwards.

quote

Announcement of John Edwards as John Kerry's Running Mate
Remarks of John Kerry
[snip]
As so many of you know, throughout the campaign, John talked about the great divide in this country—the “Two Americas”—that exists between those who are doing well and those who are struggling to make it from day to day. That concern is at the center of this campaign. It is what it is all about. It has been part of my fight for 35 years. And I am so proud that together we’re going to build one America.

endquote

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0706.html

Another:

quote:

Speech before the AME Convention
Remarks of John Kerry
[snip]
There are so many issues that call us to put our faith into action. And let me tell you there are two priorities that leap out at us if we are going to change the direction of our country. We have to make sure that fathers are there for the children they help bring into this world and we have to close the divisions between the two Americas – the haves and the have nots; the people who can do and the people who they just won’t let do.

endquote

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0706a.html

Using your logic I could accuse you of lying about Dick Cheney. I won't do that though. I'm sure you are just mistaken.

Chris Elam,
I'm sure glad your life is perfect.

Rob - point taken. Lying is probably a bit too strong of a word for Cheney's remarks. Those words are associated with Edwards rather than Kerry, and Cheney neglected to point that out.

Nate -

nice retort dude. Seriously, you should consider next time, whether to pull that golden nugget out again, or to resurrect the always popular, "nuh-uh". =) But thanks for your expression of good will, nonetheless. And here's hoping you're happy in life.

Chris,

The retort is weak because the arguement is even weaker.

Who addresses the legitimate challenges posed by Miller?

NOBODY!

They want to sit around and talk about irrelevant issues which we would happliy concede. Okay,okay, JFK-2k4 has an honorable military record!

Miller said it.
Cheney said it.
Bush said it.
I say it. (the nobody I am.)

F-it. It was 35 years ago, and ties in to nothing related to today. Nobody questions Kerry's patriotism. He is a patriot. Lies or no. 4 months is enough for me. But he is also standing in the way of progress, in a quest for power.

The only commentary the left has about him is that Zell Miller was pissed. Well, hell, the best of us get pissed when out friends are pissing on us.

He just decided to stand up, rinse the stuff off of him, and start fighting the empty rhetoric.

THEY CAN"T HANDLE THE RHETORIC!!! (Doing my best Jack Nichloson "A Few Good Men" impression.)

hahaha... Eerie coincidence? Zell is keynote speaker at DNC convention for Clinton. Now he's a keynote speaker at RNC convention for Bush. Clinton's heart goes haywire.

Poor Bill. Hope he recovers fast.

Come on Chirs, that's not nice.

The true irony is that just as Kerry tries to recapture the momentum, the Massive Shadow of Arkansas Bill drowns him out again.

Get well President Clinton.

Who's not being nice? I sincerely hope Bill gets well.

Oh, sorry.

I mis-read your comments. my fault.

Peace dude!